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foreign

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[Applause]

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foreign

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[Music]

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foreign

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Wilderness I bid you all good evening

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good morning good afternoon wherever you

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may be Across the Nation around the

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world my name is Leah Prime and this is

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the invisible night school

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we're starting off our first show of

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2023 with a retrospective on 2022. the

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events people places and topics that

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captured our attention

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it's so great to see folks week after

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week in the audience and um tonight

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we're actually going to be doing an open

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Panel as well so if you'd like to hop on

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and share your thoughts or join the

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conversation I'll be sharing out the

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stream yard link just click on it use

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your YouTube handle or your first name

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to join and I will get you added to the

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stream so you can contribute with any of

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your thoughts or discussion points

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um I would like just to take a moment to

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remind all of you that the invisible

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night school is not a democracy where a

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benevolent dictatorship so if you're a

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jerk and you'll you will be denied

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tenure and I will kick you off the

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Stream So everyone be on your best

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behavior and let me welcome on uh my

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wonderful co-hosts here I have Campbell

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who is

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and Nick hey how's it going gentlemen

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happy New Year Happy New Year

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hey did that disclaimer reply to us too

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are you monitoring my behavior yeah

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who's the dictionary you guys can say

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whatever you want I believe in

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non-hierarchical power structures so you

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guys can say whatever you want we're not

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a monolith but I make I am not

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responsible for

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blowback from whatever any of you people

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we're all in it together but we all die

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alone

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started off I I like we were talking

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about earlier uh before the show I I'm

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unstuck from time so I don't really

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realize what happened in 2022

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. and so many friends did yes there's

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been I mean I even just think about

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since the last time we had an episode

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how much has actually transpired true

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it's been a busy couple weeks in ufology

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particularly I would say our little

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microcosm of UFO Twitter that's true

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um

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yeah and I think that uh we can make a

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significant delineation between the

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culture stuff going on on like the UFO

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Twitter side and then like the big

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picture stuff and uh based on the topics

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we've come brought together to go over

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tonight that that seems like kind of the

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the two things that are the broad

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subjects in what we're going to talk

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about

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yes yeah

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well are we going to start with actual

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UFO news stuff or are we going to start

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with the Twitter stuff

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let's start with

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um actual UFO stuff I think that seems

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more appropriate and more palatable

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um and just so you gentlemen know I have

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shared out the stream yard link so we're

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going to open up I think talking about

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uh on our Google doc we have the Calvin

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UFO photo that's a good one to start

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with yeah I think that's really good

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because that's also as part of the big

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phone home three we came together and

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we're in that hour panel talking about

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it as one of the first things we did

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together as the invisible night school

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that's true

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um now correct me if I'm wrong uh Nick

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Pope who was heavily involved with this

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whole Calvin story and kind of he was

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the impetus of it that's how anyone even

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knows that there was a missing photo or

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photos he still hasn't made a comment on

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this right like to this date

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I'm not aware of it making any comments

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I don't think so someone in the chat

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chime in if I'm wrong but I'm like 99

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sure he still will not comment on this

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however uh

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I noticed during the time that it was

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floating around

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um and then it was

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being talked about

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um he

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he kept putting he kept posting that uh

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that Recreation and talking about the

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the mountains and the the landscape in

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the photo which is clearly missing from

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that new photo that new photo newly

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released photo so it makes me wonder if

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he's like kind of sub-vocally saying

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that like no this isn't it I mean

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um to me that photo isn't

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I don't necessarily think it's very

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significant

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um you you can't take anything away from

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it it's an anomalous photo whether it is

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a hoax or you know actually something

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hanging there I

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I was really partial to the reflection

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in the pond Theory until I saw that uh

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star-shaped Christmas ornament which

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seemed to check all the boxes for me too

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so that that's where I'm at with it um

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like what can you draw from that really

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I know a lot of people went out to the

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location we're trying to find the exact

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shot it was

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or the exact position that the photo was

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shot and stuff like that I don't know if

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they ever came to any agreement on that

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but like what can you even take away

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anything from a single photo

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no certainly not uh but but it was a

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really interesting photo because when I

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first started reading about UFO stuff

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trying to figure out what was going on

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the Calvin uh photo Saga did come up and

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I was pretty excited when I heard that

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it came out just to sort of see from a

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historical perspective what all the fuss

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was about uh what Nick Pope had pushed

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uh this whole side of things so much uh

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just in terms of Nick Poe he worked at

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the UK Ministry of defenses UFO desk

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which was the public facing desk for the

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ministry of Defense where they would

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collect the reports and send them around

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inside the government when he quit there

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he then moved into writing books about

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being a UFO investigator there's no

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evidence of that he uh infamously called

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himself the fox Mulder of like the

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administrative defense or whatever

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um he made a lot of claims and now he's

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sort of just this uh long-term figure in

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the UFO Community who is certainly I

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would say on the non-human intelligence

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side of things but he also is a little

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bit slippery with his views he doesn't

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like to get locked down

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yeah that's yeah that's accurate

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now I either you you mentioned that it

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hasn't been proven that he investigated

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these cases yeah I've heard some

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contention about his even even his role

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in the mod I heard he that he may have

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just been a desk clerk

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effectively that's correct yes okay

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I I even like I I didn't dive in Fox

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Mulder was in the basement with all the

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file folders so perhaps the uh

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comparison is more apt than we're

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willing to give credit right now yeah no

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it would be a literal real fox model and

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that sucks so what was his what was kind

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of like the outline of his story right

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he uh while he was working in in this

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desk job this UFO desk

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um he claimed that some of the guys had

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the photo of this Calvin UFO he claimed

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the office manager had a poster of it on

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the wall of the office yeah

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and then it got mysteriously taken down

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right yeah um which which adds some

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Mystique to the story of course but like

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still isn't painting a full enough

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picture to like

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take anything away from this story right

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yeah we also have a comment here from

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spooky that Pope claimed to have

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investigated crop circles though the mod

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said this never happened

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um what I would say though isn't it of

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course right they would never admit to

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this stuff kidding

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but yeah

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that's interesting I was gonna say so I

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have waiting backstage one of my friends

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Luke

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um I was interviewed on his podcast

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yesterday and he is very Normie and

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doesn't know anything about UFOs so I

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want to bring him on because I want to

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play a quote-unquote game where I say to

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him do you know what the Calvin UFO

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photo is oh yeah he gets to he gets to

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verify how much of this actually gets

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into like Normie discourse and how much

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wheel just sound like get so crazy

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people on the internet

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um all right so Luke

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welcome to the invisible night school

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it's so good to have you here dude hi

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everybody

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uh so behind the stage I could hear the

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question do I know what the Calvin photo

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is and no I have no idea because

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there we go folks normal people don't

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care about this stuff all right well I

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mean I want to do another who's hoping

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that there would be a link that put in

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the lustering oh you know what I

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got extra of it but um I was gonna ask

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well

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um Luke if I say the name Lou Elizondo

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do you have any idea who that is that

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does that does ring a faint Bell I don't

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know who knows but rings of faint bill I

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mean I've seen I've seen enough you know

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documentaries and things over the years

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that yeah it brings a faint bill but I

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don't I don't know who you're talking

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about okay have you picked up anything

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in uh in the U.S news Cycles about UFOs

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over the past couple years

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uh

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disclosure that happened a few years

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back

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um

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well okay so I I talked with Leah about

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this uh just the other night or just

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yesterday when we were talking for for

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our interview

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um

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I have two I have two friends that have

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seen that phenomena with their own well

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one one saw that with his own eyes while

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he was like out on a sailing ship in the

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Atlantic like late at night

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um and then another one when he was

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serving in Afghanistan saw that same

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kind of pattern of Lights while he was

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like looking at the night sky through IR

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goggles so yeah so I know a couple of

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people that have seen the phenomena or

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at least have told me that they've seen

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the phenomena themselves

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yeah I think everybody at least knows

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someone

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probably at this point right I I also I

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grew up on the ghost of Alabama

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and back when I was a kid in you know

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like the late 80s early 90s the lights

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from you know from from Destin Florida

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in Gulfport Mississippi like there I I

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can remember as a kid like looking out

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and like seeing lights that were like

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shifting at weird angles and like

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darting around and stuff like that as

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well which you know may have been

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military craft I don't know but at the

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time we're like ooh is that is that

278
00:12:07,310 --> 00:12:05,459
aliens who knows yeah

279
00:12:09,050 --> 00:12:07,320
I'm jealous I haven't had any kind of

280
00:12:11,269 --> 00:12:09,060
experience like that

281
00:12:13,069 --> 00:12:11,279
I also want to say

282
00:12:14,569 --> 00:12:13,079
um I want to call out Steve's brilliant

283
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:14,579
comment here I'm so jealous of this

284
00:12:19,850 --> 00:12:17,279
man's ignorance to this topic it's true

285
00:12:21,949 --> 00:12:19,860
UFOs are like brain worms

286
00:12:23,870 --> 00:12:21,959
um well that was a good point too like

287
00:12:27,050 --> 00:12:23,880
that uh so many people have seen the

288
00:12:30,290 --> 00:12:27,060
phenomenon and uh the Calvin uh photo is

289
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:30,300
a good example of how maybe there is

290
00:12:34,610 --> 00:12:32,160
more than one thing people are talking

291
00:12:36,170 --> 00:12:34,620
about because uh Leah would it be able

292
00:12:38,030 --> 00:12:36,180
to pull up like a photo and share your

293
00:12:40,069 --> 00:12:38,040
screen because I would love to see uh

294
00:12:42,889 --> 00:12:40,079
Luke's reaction to this and like it's

295
00:12:45,050 --> 00:12:42,899
like of course yeah so it's so different

296
00:12:46,550 --> 00:12:45,060
I just I just uploaded it so I'm gonna

297
00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:46,560
share it on the screen

298
00:12:50,569 --> 00:12:47,760
um one sec

299
00:12:52,490 --> 00:12:50,579
this is like Advanced stream yard stuff

300
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:52,500
not there we go so this is the Calvin

301
00:12:56,210 --> 00:12:54,079
UFO oh wow

302
00:12:57,949 --> 00:12:56,220
this is the digital oh this is the

303
00:12:59,629 --> 00:12:57,959
recreation oh my God look at me I'm

304
00:13:01,250 --> 00:12:59,639
probably getting fake news on my own

305
00:13:03,410 --> 00:13:01,260
podcast you'll notice the landscape in

306
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:03,420
it the one you're looking for is like in

307
00:13:06,530 --> 00:13:05,040
a voice this is the face that's actually

308
00:13:09,290 --> 00:13:06,540
useful that's the one that Nick Pope

309
00:13:11,389 --> 00:13:09,300
like commissioned based on his memory oh

310
00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:11,399
I see yeah okay well it makes sense I

311
00:13:15,650 --> 00:13:14,760
pulled this off of nickpope.net his blog

312
00:13:19,730 --> 00:13:15,660
um

313
00:13:22,190 --> 00:13:19,740
yes I will say one thing too about UFO

314
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:22,200
phenomena videos and things there was I

315
00:13:27,470 --> 00:13:24,240
don't remember what year it was but like

316
00:13:29,690 --> 00:13:27,480
10 years back or less there was a time

317
00:13:33,050 --> 00:13:29,700
when I somewhere on the internet I came

318
00:13:35,449 --> 00:13:33,060
across this really cool video of what

319
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:35,459
looked like a UFO through like the

320
00:13:41,629 --> 00:13:39,839
window of an airplane and I shared it on

321
00:13:43,790 --> 00:13:41,639
Reddit or something and one of the first

322
00:13:46,430 --> 00:13:43,800
comments was like holy crap this might

323
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:46,440
be the most convincing footage I've ever

324
00:13:50,269 --> 00:13:48,480
seen and it made me feel kind of weird

325
00:13:53,629 --> 00:13:50,279
so I pulled it down and I lost the link

326
00:13:56,210 --> 00:13:53,639
is uh did it look like a classic disc

327
00:13:57,949 --> 00:13:56,220
kind of floating it was it was like a

328
00:13:59,449 --> 00:13:57,959
night sky thing so it was just like it

329
00:14:01,730 --> 00:13:59,459
was it was a light it was like an

330
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:01,740
optical light effect I I can't I don't

331
00:14:06,410 --> 00:14:04,560
remember exactly what I saw but it was

332
00:14:08,329 --> 00:14:06,420
yeah there was something about it that

333
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:08,339
was pretty compelling and whoever saw it

334
00:14:13,250 --> 00:14:10,800
was like wow that that looks like really

335
00:14:14,769 --> 00:14:13,260
legit were you visited by any Men In

336
00:14:18,530 --> 00:14:14,779
Black afterwards

337
00:14:21,290 --> 00:14:18,540
uh no but I will say that there was the

338
00:14:25,069 --> 00:14:21,300
that Stephen Greer movie that came out

339
00:14:27,889 --> 00:14:25,079
uh back in I don't know like 2013 to

340
00:14:30,110 --> 00:14:27,899
2012 or something and after I got done

341
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:30,120
watching it I kind of did the meditation

342
00:14:35,690 --> 00:14:34,079
and then I like saw like a face in my

343
00:14:37,250 --> 00:14:35,700
mind and I got freaked out and I like

344
00:14:39,530 --> 00:14:37,260
said the Lord's Prayer or something and

345
00:14:42,350 --> 00:14:39,540
it went away so that was freak me out as

346
00:14:43,790 --> 00:14:42,360
well yeah I we've talked about this on

347
00:14:44,930 --> 00:14:43,800
the show before I really want to do a

348
00:14:47,329 --> 00:14:44,940
ce5

349
00:14:50,689 --> 00:14:47,339
I think that would be super fun we all

350
00:14:53,689 --> 00:14:50,699
want to do C5 yeah

351
00:14:56,269 --> 00:14:53,699
did you find the original photo

352
00:14:57,889 --> 00:14:56,279
and I I have the original photo what's

353
00:15:00,110 --> 00:14:57,899
what has me on The Struggle Bus right

354
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:00,120
now is getting it to display in stream

355
00:15:04,850 --> 00:15:03,120
yard oh so you you guys keep carrying

356
00:15:06,889 --> 00:15:04,860
the conversation and I'll get it uh

357
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:06,899
pulled up here what's the leading

358
00:15:10,970 --> 00:15:09,360
hypothesis for what it might be if it's

359
00:15:13,009 --> 00:15:10,980
not um

360
00:15:13,970 --> 00:15:13,019
uh these one of you said that like the

361
00:15:16,009 --> 00:15:13,980
reflection

362
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:16,019
um right here has been disfavored but

363
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:18,480
what is the actual best hypothesis right

364
00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:22,320
now I mean you ask yeah it's strikingly

365
00:15:26,930 --> 00:15:25,260
similar to a a standard five-point star

366
00:15:29,030 --> 00:15:26,940
Christmas ornament turned on its side

367
00:15:31,550 --> 00:15:29,040
including the little nub that you hang

368
00:15:35,090 --> 00:15:31,560
the little liner Hook from to hang from

369
00:15:35,740 --> 00:15:35,100
a tree I mean it it's it's pretty pretty

370
00:15:36,410 --> 00:15:35,750
similar

371
00:15:40,430 --> 00:15:36,420
[Music]

372
00:15:46,490 --> 00:15:43,490
who knows who knows it's not very

373
00:15:50,269 --> 00:15:46,500
convincing to me it does not yeah it

374
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:50,279
depends on uh who you ask for Dr David

375
00:15:54,110 --> 00:15:52,800
Clark the uh assistant professor at

376
00:15:56,030 --> 00:15:54,120
Sheffield Holland University in

377
00:15:59,810 --> 00:15:56,040
journalism he's the one who uh

378
00:16:00,829 --> 00:15:59,820
originally foiled the uh the original he

379
00:16:03,170 --> 00:16:00,839
was actually hired by the national

380
00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:03,180
archives in the UK after he successfully

381
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:04,980
Floyd some of their sensitive documents

382
00:16:08,449 --> 00:16:06,240
they brought him on and he actually

383
00:16:10,430 --> 00:16:08,459
worked with them to declassify things

384
00:16:12,829 --> 00:16:10,440
and he found evidence that this photo

385
00:16:15,050 --> 00:16:12,839
existed in that time period of it 15

386
00:16:16,670 --> 00:16:15,060
years ago and he actually was heavily

387
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:16,680
involved in the release of it now and he

388
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:18,720
thinks and I don't support his view but

389
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:20,160
he thinks the most likely explanation

390
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:22,079
for what we're looking at here is a

391
00:16:26,329 --> 00:16:24,959
American uh black Tech project uh that

392
00:16:27,889 --> 00:16:26,339
he thinks it's the uh I can't remember

393
00:16:31,009 --> 00:16:27,899
what they call the Aurora or something

394
00:16:33,050 --> 00:16:31,019
the Imagine or you know the thick the

395
00:16:34,970 --> 00:16:33,060
don't want to be offensive here uh the

396
00:16:36,650 --> 00:16:34,980
the thing that is speculated to uh

397
00:16:38,829 --> 00:16:36,660
explain a lot of these uh triangles in

398
00:16:41,329 --> 00:16:38,839
the sky but um

399
00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:41,339
yes thank you

400
00:16:44,749 --> 00:16:43,440
I don't know about all that no I don't

401
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:44,759
accept that but that's the the

402
00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:47,759
researcher who's actually a professor uh

403
00:16:51,650 --> 00:16:49,920
you know it thinks that uh I don't

404
00:16:52,970 --> 00:16:51,660
accept it so it really depends who you

405
00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:52,980
ask

406
00:16:58,850 --> 00:16:55,860
is this the same photo that he alludes

407
00:17:00,110 --> 00:16:58,860
to in um his uh chapter in Leslie

408
00:17:09,530 --> 00:17:00,120
Keane's book

409
00:17:11,809 --> 00:17:10,069
um

410
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:11,819
Nick Pope had a chapter that he

411
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:14,880
contributed and he had some photo that

412
00:17:19,549 --> 00:17:17,280
he thinks is like maybe the best

413
00:17:22,010 --> 00:17:19,559
evidence that the mod had is that the

414
00:17:24,409 --> 00:17:22,020
one if it was powerful then yes but like

415
00:17:27,470 --> 00:17:24,419
I said he hasn't specifically said if

416
00:17:29,810 --> 00:17:27,480
this was actually the one which I think

417
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:29,820
he's being very careful about doing and

418
00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:31,440
it seems very intentional he can just

419
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:33,720
kind of play up that mystery right

420
00:17:40,250 --> 00:17:37,679
yep yep so we just had avocado jump into

421
00:17:41,630 --> 00:17:40,260
the Green Room salute thank you so much

422
00:17:43,250 --> 00:17:41,640
for dropping in

423
00:17:44,990 --> 00:17:43,260
um I'm gonna kick you off the stream and

424
00:17:48,770 --> 00:17:45,000
bring it our next guest thanks Luke

425
00:17:54,830 --> 00:17:52,190
hey avocado what's going on hey hey

426
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:54,840
what's up guys oh my God it's so good to

427
00:17:58,850 --> 00:17:56,160
see you in the flesh I usually just

428
00:18:01,909 --> 00:17:58,860
admire you from afar the kind of

429
00:18:04,330 --> 00:18:01,919
prototypical Twitter social relationship

430
00:18:07,070 --> 00:18:04,340
I'm a real human not a cat

431
00:18:09,409 --> 00:18:07,080
yeah I'm not a cat yeah thanks for

432
00:18:12,049 --> 00:18:09,419
finally making the show live too

433
00:18:14,029 --> 00:18:12,059
yeah of course

434
00:18:15,890 --> 00:18:14,039
you know I have not read your paper on

435
00:18:19,010 --> 00:18:15,900
glossolalia yet

436
00:18:21,710 --> 00:18:19,020
it's you know it's like 12 to 13 pages

437
00:18:24,350 --> 00:18:21,720
so it's it's kind of dense I get it I

438
00:18:26,210 --> 00:18:24,360
just you know I'm lazy about reading

439
00:18:28,010 --> 00:18:26,220
I'll get to it I promise and we'll

440
00:18:30,650 --> 00:18:28,020
probably talk about on here some really

441
00:18:33,049 --> 00:18:30,660
what's the abstract

442
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:33,059
yeah so essentially um what I did was

443
00:18:37,850 --> 00:18:35,280
look at psychological implications

444
00:18:40,490 --> 00:18:37,860
for glossolalia um looking at past

445
00:18:41,570 --> 00:18:40,500
research and then current research

446
00:18:43,490 --> 00:18:41,580
um

447
00:18:44,930 --> 00:18:43,500
and it kind of the past research kind of

448
00:18:49,850 --> 00:18:44,940
falls into

449
00:18:51,470 --> 00:18:49,860
issues that a lot of religious phenomena

450
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:51,480
go through where you get a lot of people

451
00:18:55,730 --> 00:18:53,760
who already have preset beliefs going

452
00:18:57,909 --> 00:18:55,740
into the research which kind of

453
00:19:00,850 --> 00:18:57,919
dominated the field of psychology

454
00:19:03,409 --> 00:19:00,860
especially in the like 40s 50s and 60s

455
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:03,419
as like theories and methods we're still

456
00:19:07,010 --> 00:19:04,320
kind of being

457
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:07,020
laid out and tested

458
00:19:12,409 --> 00:19:09,360
um so originally it was looked at as

459
00:19:15,470 --> 00:19:12,419
some kind of

460
00:19:17,049 --> 00:19:15,480
uh what's the word I'm looking for here

461
00:19:20,330 --> 00:19:17,059
um

462
00:19:21,950 --> 00:19:20,340
psychogenetic like illnesses essentially

463
00:19:24,409 --> 00:19:21,960
um

464
00:19:27,529 --> 00:19:24,419
it was look at as could potentially be

465
00:19:29,090 --> 00:19:27,539
schizophrenia hysteria a lot of things

466
00:19:30,770 --> 00:19:29,100
like that and then it eventually moved

467
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:30,780
into more

468
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:32,880
behavioral and personality disorder

469
00:19:36,770 --> 00:19:34,559
issues

470
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:36,780
um and now it's moved into

471
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:39,360
a focus of it seems to be more of like a

472
00:19:43,370 --> 00:19:40,880
social contagion

473
00:19:47,210 --> 00:19:43,380
this sounds like Morgellons

474
00:19:48,770 --> 00:19:47,220
too yeah a little bit yeah um and it's

475
00:19:50,270 --> 00:19:48,780
kind of branched off two ways where you

476
00:19:53,870 --> 00:19:50,280
have this kind of social context

477
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:53,880
depending glossolalia and then you have

478
00:19:57,529 --> 00:19:55,919
um contextless

479
00:20:00,289 --> 00:19:57,539
it's oscillating essentially which would

480
00:20:02,330 --> 00:20:00,299
be um spontaneous glossalega this is

481
00:20:04,450 --> 00:20:02,340
more associated with like shamanic

482
00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:04,460
cultures would you be able to Define

483
00:20:09,890 --> 00:20:08,160
glossolalia for me and um your education

484
00:20:11,090 --> 00:20:09,900
background it's in religious studies or

485
00:20:13,010 --> 00:20:11,100
something is that right

486
00:20:14,870 --> 00:20:13,020
yeah so I've got I've currently got a

487
00:20:16,909 --> 00:20:14,880
bachelor's in psychology and religious

488
00:20:21,650 --> 00:20:16,919
studies

489
00:20:23,570 --> 00:20:21,660
so glossolalia is the enunciation the

490
00:20:25,490 --> 00:20:23,580
true definition is the spontaneous

491
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:25,500
enunciation of

492
00:20:29,090 --> 00:20:27,360
sounds and noises that have no

493
00:20:30,289 --> 00:20:29,100
discernible meaning

494
00:20:32,990 --> 00:20:30,299
um

495
00:20:34,730 --> 00:20:33,000
as opposed to xenolalia

496
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:34,740
which is speaking in actual language

497
00:20:39,529 --> 00:20:36,799
spontaneously that you don't know

498
00:20:41,029 --> 00:20:39,539
xenialalia is seen a little bit in the

499
00:20:43,549 --> 00:20:41,039
book of Acts

500
00:20:45,890 --> 00:20:43,559
and then it very quickly in the Bible

501
00:20:48,350 --> 00:20:45,900
morphs into glossolalia

502
00:20:51,169 --> 00:20:48,360
um there's a lot of debate Within

503
00:20:52,130 --> 00:20:51,179
Christian scholarship as to why that

504
00:20:52,850 --> 00:20:52,140
happened

505
00:20:55,490 --> 00:20:52,860
um

506
00:20:57,950 --> 00:20:55,500
more so I would say it runs in the fact

507
00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:57,960
that Xena lalia is almost impossible to

508
00:21:01,610 --> 00:20:59,600
happen so

509
00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:01,620
glossolalia is the true thing that was

510
00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:02,880
going on

511
00:21:06,110 --> 00:21:04,200
um I think it just through

512
00:21:08,450 --> 00:21:06,120
interpretation of Storytelling turned

513
00:21:11,150 --> 00:21:08,460
into some xenolalia Tales

514
00:21:12,730 --> 00:21:11,160
but the modern research

515
00:21:15,890 --> 00:21:12,740
like I said sees more of that

516
00:21:18,049 --> 00:21:15,900
spontaneous glossolalia in

517
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:18,059
shamanic cultures and then in certain

518
00:21:22,970 --> 00:21:20,400
Christian Traditions um a lot of them

519
00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:22,980
like charismatic Pentecostal Traditions

520
00:21:31,070 --> 00:21:27,679
during like uh baptism of the Holy Ghost

521
00:21:33,289 --> 00:21:31,080
and a lot of times it starts there and

522
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:33,299
then it becomes a social

523
00:21:40,010 --> 00:21:35,760
context dependent issue

524
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:43,010
obviously there is like a

525
00:21:47,630 --> 00:21:45,360
phenomenon that exists as far as the

526
00:21:49,310 --> 00:21:47,640
spontaneous but then the the social

527
00:21:50,350 --> 00:21:49,320
aspect of it I think is what's more

528
00:21:52,970 --> 00:21:50,360
interesting

529
00:21:54,529 --> 00:21:52,980
and how you're able to practice this

530
00:21:56,090 --> 00:21:54,539
afterwards while you're doing mundane

531
00:21:58,250 --> 00:21:56,100
tasks and it shows that there's like a

532
00:22:00,409 --> 00:21:58,260
disassociation from the original

533
00:22:02,029 --> 00:22:00,419
phenomenon itself

534
00:22:03,770 --> 00:22:02,039
I think the form that most people would

535
00:22:05,330 --> 00:22:03,780
be familiar with is like in the large

536
00:22:07,370 --> 00:22:05,340
churches the speaking in tongues and

537
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:07,380
I've always kind of without looking into

538
00:22:11,570 --> 00:22:09,120
it just kind of Presumed it works in a

539
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:11,580
similar fashion to State hypnotism where

540
00:22:14,930 --> 00:22:13,200
the like the individual who's being

541
00:22:16,730 --> 00:22:14,940
focused on kind of

542
00:22:19,490 --> 00:22:16,740
um is trying to acclimate to the crowd

543
00:22:21,169 --> 00:22:19,500
and self-appease everybody

544
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:21,179
um you know what I mean what you you

545
00:22:26,210 --> 00:22:23,520
kind of subconscious consciously play

546
00:22:28,970 --> 00:22:26,220
along to just fit into a crowd and you

547
00:22:30,830 --> 00:22:28,980
kind of um maybe even unaware that

548
00:22:33,230 --> 00:22:30,840
you're doing it yourself but it's just

549
00:22:36,049 --> 00:22:33,240
kind of a feedback loop yeah exactly

550
00:22:37,970 --> 00:22:36,059
it's it's very highly as expected in

551
00:22:39,470 --> 00:22:37,980
those churches that usually practice it

552
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:39,480
um

553
00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:41,280
I know in in the tradition that I was

554
00:22:46,130 --> 00:22:44,400
raised in like Word of Faith charismatic

555
00:22:49,810 --> 00:22:46,140
it's an essential part of the theology

556
00:22:52,850 --> 00:22:49,820
so it's an essential part of

557
00:22:55,270 --> 00:22:52,860
your outward expression of your faith is

558
00:22:57,890 --> 00:22:55,280
to be able to have gifts of the Spirit

559
00:23:00,350 --> 00:22:57,900
uh tongues being one of them

560
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:00,360
so it's and it's tongues usually looked

561
00:23:05,270 --> 00:23:02,400
at as like the highest gift

562
00:23:06,169 --> 00:23:05,280
so to not be able to speak in tongues

563
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:06,179
would

564
00:23:10,210 --> 00:23:08,400
essentially put you in like a lower part

565
00:23:12,409 --> 00:23:10,220
of the caste system within the church

566
00:23:15,230 --> 00:23:12,419
and the social group within that church

567
00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:15,240
so it's very expected to be able to do

568
00:23:19,810 --> 00:23:17,700
it and

569
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:19,820
you kind of find that there's almost

570
00:23:24,770 --> 00:23:22,799
dialects of tongues that exist within

571
00:23:27,169 --> 00:23:24,780
certain like church groups interesting

572
00:23:28,610 --> 00:23:27,179
so if you go to like one Church you'll

573
00:23:31,490 --> 00:23:28,620
notice that they all kind of use the

574
00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:31,500
same like syllables and the same um

575
00:23:35,810 --> 00:23:34,260
consonant spaces and stuff like that so

576
00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:35,820
it's really fascinating

577
00:23:39,770 --> 00:23:37,200
um

578
00:23:42,289 --> 00:23:39,780
something that we've locked in on a lot

579
00:23:44,810 --> 00:23:42,299
here as you certainly know is this uh

580
00:23:48,289 --> 00:23:44,820
circumstance of observation versus

581
00:23:52,190 --> 00:23:48,299
interpretation of the observation and

582
00:23:54,110 --> 00:23:52,200
how important the interpretation is to

583
00:23:56,510 --> 00:23:54,120
accepting whether the observation

584
00:23:57,470 --> 00:23:56,520
occurred which you know it doesn't make

585
00:23:59,149 --> 00:23:57,480
sense obviously but that's just

586
00:24:02,090 --> 00:23:59,159
seemingly the way the human brain works

587
00:24:03,710 --> 00:24:02,100
so it's neat that you have a sort of a

588
00:24:05,630 --> 00:24:03,720
specialization in this like and your

589
00:24:08,330 --> 00:24:05,640
focus historically has been religious

590
00:24:11,090 --> 00:24:08,340
studies um you also have the I presume

591
00:24:13,610 --> 00:24:11,100
some interest in UFO studies how do you

592
00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:13,620
see your uh knowledge of this subject

593
00:24:20,149 --> 00:24:16,140
helping you to understand what's going

594
00:24:21,890 --> 00:24:20,159
on in the UFO Community these days

595
00:24:23,270 --> 00:24:21,900
it's a good question

596
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:23,280
um

597
00:24:29,810 --> 00:24:26,640
belief is a big part of it

598
00:24:34,270 --> 00:24:31,730
growing up in like a fundamentalist

599
00:24:36,770 --> 00:24:34,280
Christian Church like I did

600
00:24:38,210 --> 00:24:36,780
falling out of that

601
00:24:42,289 --> 00:24:38,220
um

602
00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:42,299
goes along with having your entire

603
00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:44,100
world view and narrative creation

604
00:24:47,630 --> 00:24:46,080
mechanism to just be ripped out from

605
00:24:50,390 --> 00:24:47,640
under you

606
00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:50,400
and how for most people they will

607
00:24:53,930 --> 00:24:52,559
do everything in their power to fight

608
00:25:00,649 --> 00:24:53,940
that

609
00:25:03,770 --> 00:25:00,659
and so when presented with

610
00:25:05,690 --> 00:25:03,780
contrary information that contradicts

611
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:05,700
their belief system

612
00:25:12,049 --> 00:25:10,559
they usually Resort in anger and denial

613
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:12,059
and so that's kind of what brought me to

614
00:25:15,649 --> 00:25:13,919
the UFO

615
00:25:17,630 --> 00:25:15,659
Topic at hand I mean I've always kind of

616
00:25:20,570 --> 00:25:17,640
been interested in space and

617
00:25:23,450 --> 00:25:20,580
and the idea of extraterrestrials

618
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:23,460
and then the whole 2017 flap I kind of

619
00:25:28,430 --> 00:25:25,679
saw the New York Times article it's like

620
00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:28,440
this is kind of interesting

621
00:25:33,549 --> 00:25:30,720
um so started following it got on the

622
00:25:36,289 --> 00:25:33,559
UFO Twitter probably about

623
00:25:39,710 --> 00:25:36,299
2019 to our 2020 when they released the

624
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:42,169
quickly saw through

625
00:25:46,490 --> 00:25:45,600
you know Elizondo stuff

626
00:25:48,289 --> 00:25:46,500
um

627
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:48,299
he reminded me a lot of a lot of

628
00:25:51,250 --> 00:25:49,919
religious leaders that I was around just

629
00:25:53,230 --> 00:25:51,260
a lot of the same

630
00:25:55,970 --> 00:25:53,240
vernacularly used

631
00:25:59,630 --> 00:25:55,980
and so then I got very fascinated in

632
00:26:00,890 --> 00:25:59,640
watching what happened within that space

633
00:26:02,810 --> 00:26:00,900
um

634
00:26:04,430 --> 00:26:02,820
After People kind of started attacking

635
00:26:05,930 --> 00:26:04,440
Lou and started attacking the whole

636
00:26:08,210 --> 00:26:05,940
narrative

637
00:26:10,490 --> 00:26:08,220
that's where I got interested in how his

638
00:26:11,870 --> 00:26:10,500
people's belief systems gonna uphold

639
00:26:13,490 --> 00:26:11,880
here how are they going to fight this

640
00:26:15,370 --> 00:26:13,500
and so that's kind of what I've been

641
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:15,380
watching from afar

642
00:26:20,769 --> 00:26:18,480
I was I was going to ask you what your

643
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:20,779
thoughts are and how this community

644
00:26:29,870 --> 00:26:25,039
is or represents like an emergent

645
00:26:34,610 --> 00:26:32,630
um I would say that it was

646
00:26:37,970 --> 00:26:34,620
its own religion

647
00:26:41,090 --> 00:26:37,980
um I would say UFO Twitter itself

648
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:41,100
is its own uh independent religion

649
00:26:47,149 --> 00:26:43,200
kind of existed within this

650
00:26:49,730 --> 00:26:47,159
grouping of uh UFO related religions

651
00:26:54,529 --> 00:26:51,710
there seemed to be such a quick

652
00:26:55,930 --> 00:26:54,539
hierarchy built and personalities and

653
00:27:00,549 --> 00:26:55,940
leaders

654
00:27:06,350 --> 00:27:03,169
establishing a beliefs and uh like a

655
00:27:08,090 --> 00:27:06,360
Mythos and a cultists and all these

656
00:27:10,370 --> 00:27:08,100
things that kind of essentialize what a

657
00:27:12,409 --> 00:27:10,380
new religious movement is I kind of just

658
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:12,419
see in all of the boxes just slow to get

659
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:14,640
checked off as as kind of the attacks

660
00:27:21,289 --> 00:27:16,799
rolled in it solidified itself as a

661
00:27:25,850 --> 00:27:23,210
so you think the the attacks themselves

662
00:27:27,610 --> 00:27:25,860
are kind of an integral part of um

663
00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:27,620
forming that religion

664
00:27:34,250 --> 00:27:32,460
solidifying it yeah I gave

665
00:27:35,570 --> 00:27:34,260
religious groups usually Thrive

666
00:27:38,090 --> 00:27:35,580
especially

667
00:27:39,769 --> 00:27:38,100
Cults new religious movements that

668
00:27:41,810 --> 00:27:39,779
thrive off of attention with greater

669
00:27:43,370 --> 00:27:41,820
Society yeah that's kind of what bonds

670
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:43,380
them together

671
00:27:49,549 --> 00:27:45,360
um the higher the tension the higher the

672
00:27:51,169 --> 00:27:49,559
cohesion within that group and so as

673
00:27:53,870 --> 00:27:51,179
I think as you've had personalities like

674
00:27:55,070 --> 00:27:53,880
Green Street flip and start attacking

675
00:27:56,029 --> 00:27:55,080
the narrative that he kind of helped

676
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:56,039
build

677
00:28:03,110 --> 00:27:57,840
that was kind of the taking of the

678
00:28:04,130 --> 00:28:03,120
Domino as as to the cohesion and the

679
00:28:05,930 --> 00:28:04,140
um

680
00:28:10,669 --> 00:28:05,940
kind of centralizing around a certain

681
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:13,549
well the I think the Calvin photo was a

682
00:28:17,690 --> 00:28:15,120
good example of that because we

683
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:17,700
immediately uh saw the Community start

684
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:20,159
to fight about what was the most likely

685
00:28:25,789 --> 00:28:22,799
explanation and it's just the synopsis

686
00:28:28,610 --> 00:28:25,799
of the whole thing in a nutshell right

687
00:28:31,130 --> 00:28:28,620
that everybody like even within the

688
00:28:33,049 --> 00:28:31,140
community can't agree on what it is that

689
00:28:34,010 --> 00:28:33,059
they believe in so it's like what what

690
00:28:36,049 --> 00:28:34,020
is what's holding this community

691
00:28:38,390 --> 00:28:36,059
together and it does make sense to me

692
00:28:41,330 --> 00:28:38,400
that some degree of that is the external

693
00:28:43,730 --> 00:28:41,340
tension pushing all of these sort of

694
00:28:47,409 --> 00:28:43,740
Divergent beliefs together into this

695
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:47,419
nucleus that we're sort of talking about

696
00:28:52,669 --> 00:28:50,640
yep yep

697
00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:52,679
excellent cool

698
00:28:56,570 --> 00:28:54,960
well avocado thank you so much for

699
00:28:58,370 --> 00:28:56,580
dropping by tonight we're delighted that

700
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:58,380
you're able to make a live show

701
00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:00,240
um anytime we'd love to have you on just

702
00:29:04,610 --> 00:29:02,640
as a guest too especially to do a show

703
00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:04,620
on you know the intersection between

704
00:29:09,049 --> 00:29:06,480
religion and ufology

705
00:29:11,149 --> 00:29:09,059
yeah absolutely and anytime you guys get

706
00:29:13,070 --> 00:29:11,159
a topic that's kind of relevant let me

707
00:29:16,190 --> 00:29:13,080
know and I'll try to make it on sweet

708
00:29:18,529 --> 00:29:16,200
awesome all right take care man see you

709
00:29:21,649 --> 00:29:20,210
is there anybody else up on deck or do

710
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:21,659
we want to start rolling through the

711
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:23,520
years tomorrow no let's keep rolling

712
00:29:26,269 --> 00:29:24,720
through because we're already at the

713
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:26,279
bottom of the hour

714
00:29:29,630 --> 00:29:27,120
um

715
00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:29,640
so there's you know we have this kind of

716
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:31,860
scattershot of different events we have

717
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:33,840
the Brazilian UFO hearings

718
00:29:37,549 --> 00:29:35,580
um I only I don't know too much about

719
00:29:39,409 --> 00:29:37,559
that um I don't think anything was ever

720
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:39,419
actually translated or transcribed into

721
00:29:43,970 --> 00:29:41,760
English but it was basically I think a

722
00:29:46,669 --> 00:29:43,980
75th Anniversary after the quote unquote

723
00:29:47,690 --> 00:29:46,679
night of the UFOs in Brazil and it

724
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:47,700
prompted

725
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:50,880
um you know I use the term hearings but

726
00:29:56,750 --> 00:29:54,960
it was more I think a opportunity for

727
00:29:59,570 --> 00:29:56,760
um like the septuagenarians and

728
00:30:02,330 --> 00:29:59,580
octogenarians who saw any of this to

729
00:30:04,970 --> 00:30:02,340
kind of talk about it and share it

730
00:30:06,409 --> 00:30:04,980
um and they just made kind of Social and

731
00:30:08,210 --> 00:30:06,419
cultural space

732
00:30:09,769 --> 00:30:08,220
um I think in the U.S right because

733
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:09,779
we're watching everything unfold on our

734
00:30:14,570 --> 00:30:11,760
side I think people tended to transpose

735
00:30:16,669 --> 00:30:14,580
what's going on here into Brazil but the

736
00:30:19,730 --> 00:30:16,679
reality is it just seems kind of like a

737
00:30:22,430 --> 00:30:19,740
commemorative kind of goofy cultural

738
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:22,440
thing rather than an actual inquiry

739
00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:24,000
interesting yeah I didn't really follow

740
00:30:30,169 --> 00:30:26,640
it when it came out I think it

741
00:30:32,210 --> 00:30:30,179
just popped up in past like like all the

742
00:30:35,630 --> 00:30:32,220
uh probably all the other things on the

743
00:30:37,549 --> 00:30:35,640
list did too but yes kind of stuck

744
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:37,559
around for about a week and then we all

745
00:30:42,409 --> 00:30:40,320
moved on right and it's it's like a lot

746
00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:42,419
of things on this where there there

747
00:30:45,889 --> 00:30:44,399
isn't a ton of a substance or the

748
00:30:48,590 --> 00:30:45,899
substance that is there that could be

749
00:30:51,649 --> 00:30:48,600
very interesting from a particular lens

750
00:30:55,010 --> 00:30:51,659
is made into something that's not by the

751
00:30:56,330 --> 00:30:55,020
way it's described so like it's uh like

752
00:30:59,389 --> 00:30:56,340
on Reddit somebody will post to be like

753
00:31:01,549 --> 00:30:59,399
oh Brazilian hearings uh witness says

754
00:31:02,810 --> 00:31:01,559
they see alien or whatever so it's like

755
00:31:04,669 --> 00:31:02,820
oh this came out in a hearing and then

756
00:31:06,590 --> 00:31:04,679
you look it up and it says Leah said

757
00:31:08,990 --> 00:31:06,600
it's uh somebody sort of like just

758
00:31:11,810 --> 00:31:09,000
speaking in front of uh their Congress

759
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:11,820
and that's a valid activity but it does

760
00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:13,440
cause that disconnect when you see that

761
00:31:18,769 --> 00:31:15,840
it's being falsely uh represented to

762
00:31:22,970 --> 00:31:21,049
what else happened

763
00:31:24,649 --> 00:31:22,980
yeah well that reminds me of the mufon

764
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:24,659
thing too because it's kind of similar

765
00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:26,880
where it's like a false representation

766
00:31:35,090 --> 00:31:31,200
uh with the story from the Sun uh

767
00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:35,100
in yeah April right and they yeah

768
00:31:39,470 --> 00:31:37,440
they got a pile of documents that they

769
00:31:41,810 --> 00:31:39,480
forwarded from the US government and

770
00:31:44,570 --> 00:31:41,820
within that pile of documents there was

771
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:44,580
a mufon report and then the Sun

772
00:31:48,529 --> 00:31:46,320
newspaper ran with the contents of the

773
00:31:50,750 --> 00:31:48,539
mufon report as though it was a U.S

774
00:31:53,090 --> 00:31:50,760
government document report yeah Tucker

775
00:31:56,269 --> 00:31:53,100
Carlson covered this as well

776
00:31:58,190 --> 00:31:56,279
um UFOs harming individuals by their

777
00:32:00,669 --> 00:31:58,200
proximity like people coming away from

778
00:32:04,130 --> 00:32:00,679
close encounters with otherworldly craft

779
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:04,140
being injured was kind of the spin on

780
00:32:09,049 --> 00:32:06,480
this right that was kind of the headline

781
00:32:10,970 --> 00:32:09,059
about this but um when you go through

782
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:10,980
and look at a lot of those documents

783
00:32:16,010 --> 00:32:13,679
these were these cases were pulled from

784
00:32:18,110 --> 00:32:16,020
like you said mufon studies

785
00:32:19,730 --> 00:32:18,120
um The National Enquirer

786
00:32:22,190 --> 00:32:19,740
uh

787
00:32:26,269 --> 00:32:22,200
like all sorts of different sources in

788
00:32:28,370 --> 00:32:26,279
in in not one of these was their um like

789
00:32:30,590 --> 00:32:28,380
a causal link determined between

790
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:30,600
whatever this person's experience was

791
00:32:34,970 --> 00:32:32,640
and any type of medical issues they have

792
00:32:37,010 --> 00:32:34,980
right that was kind of the Crux of the

793
00:32:38,570 --> 00:32:37,020
entire thing

794
00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:38,580
is that correct am I remembering the

795
00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:40,500
same event yeah yeah I believe the

796
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:43,200
medical uh thing was what they ran with

797
00:32:48,710 --> 00:32:45,600
and that's what led to a lot of these uh

798
00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:48,720
interviews with people like Gary Nolan

799
00:32:55,370 --> 00:32:51,600
who was going out and talking about

800
00:32:58,010 --> 00:32:55,380
how he speculates that what seems to be

801
00:33:00,350 --> 00:32:58,020
brain damage is maybe actually a change

802
00:33:03,950 --> 00:33:00,360
from like genetics and that some people

803
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:03,960
have a receiver in their head to pick up

804
00:33:08,810 --> 00:33:06,000
signals from the you know Universal

805
00:33:11,269 --> 00:33:08,820
inherent intelligence or whatever uh so

806
00:33:14,269 --> 00:33:11,279
so the other problematic things coming

807
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:14,279
out of that um Louise like you've um

808
00:33:23,950 --> 00:33:19,200
really uh like focused in on these sort

809
00:33:26,990 --> 00:33:23,960
of claims that are close to historically

810
00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:27,000
problematic philosophies kind of like

811
00:33:31,970 --> 00:33:30,240
Eugenics almost when a doctor of like

812
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:31,980
biology is saying that he thinks that

813
00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:33,120
some people have a genetic

814
00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:35,279
predisposition to speak to the universal

815
00:33:41,090 --> 00:33:38,159
intelligence uh would that not be a uh

816
00:33:43,549 --> 00:33:41,100
you know a superior type of homo

817
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:43,559
Superior you know like it's problematic

818
00:33:48,110 --> 00:33:45,840
yeah yeah I think so I mean it would be

819
00:33:50,690 --> 00:33:48,120
one thing if they could really provide

820
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:50,700
evidence for what they're saying yeah it

821
00:33:54,350 --> 00:33:53,039
was like look at my credentials this is

822
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:54,360
interesting we don't know what all of

823
00:33:57,649 --> 00:33:56,399
DNA does as if that's something

824
00:33:58,970 --> 00:33:57,659
mysterious

825
00:34:00,769 --> 00:33:58,980
and um

826
00:34:02,389 --> 00:34:00,779
they try to weave these stories but

827
00:34:04,730 --> 00:34:02,399
ultimately

828
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:04,740
what is it based on right and also the

829
00:34:07,490 --> 00:34:06,000
other the other interesting thing is

830
00:34:09,169 --> 00:34:07,500
like how does it or why does it gain

831
00:34:11,690 --> 00:34:09,179
traction

832
00:34:15,530 --> 00:34:11,700
in the absence of evidence uh and what

833
00:34:18,829 --> 00:34:15,540
demographic is most receptive to that

834
00:34:21,290 --> 00:34:18,839
so that's also problematic like do you

835
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:21,300
have thoughts on that

836
00:34:36,169 --> 00:34:22,320
um

837
00:34:38,210 --> 00:34:36,179
Skinwalker Ranch

838
00:34:40,430 --> 00:34:38,220
uh rural White

839
00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:40,440
conservative

840
00:34:43,849 --> 00:34:42,240
it's going to say the uh the same

841
00:34:48,169 --> 00:34:43,859
demographic that watches things like Fox

842
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:48,179
News yeah which is itself a carrier of a

843
00:34:53,149 --> 00:34:50,159
lot of um pseudoscientific stuff and

844
00:34:57,050 --> 00:34:53,159
also Tucker Carlson also makes a big hey

845
00:34:59,150 --> 00:34:57,060
about UFOs these days as well

846
00:35:01,010 --> 00:34:59,160
um interesting for reasons which are

847
00:35:02,570 --> 00:35:01,020
probably to do with what color veto has

848
00:35:04,430 --> 00:35:02,580
alluded to

849
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:04,440
uh Jason kohlovied has written about

850
00:35:10,250 --> 00:35:07,760
sort of the right wing grifting of UFOs

851
00:35:11,690 --> 00:35:10,260
including on Fox

852
00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:11,700
as a way of kind of saying that the

853
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:13,920
government is not looking after us like

854
00:35:17,810 --> 00:35:15,839
in the sky and the government's just

855
00:35:19,130 --> 00:35:17,820
sort of letting it happen which is like

856
00:35:21,170 --> 00:35:19,140
an analog of

857
00:35:22,849 --> 00:35:21,180
illegal immigrants are coming in and

858
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:22,859
we're not letting them well we're not

859
00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:24,240
doing anything about it it's always like

860
00:35:28,310 --> 00:35:25,680
a threat narrative

861
00:35:30,530 --> 00:35:28,320
right the criminal illegal aliens yeah

862
00:35:32,030 --> 00:35:30,540
that's right we granted them that's like

863
00:35:34,730 --> 00:35:32,040
George warwell's style stuff the

864
00:35:37,609 --> 00:35:34,740
language does matter yeah but that's a

865
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:37,619
really interesting connection right

866
00:35:42,770 --> 00:35:40,560
so we have uh talisma

867
00:35:45,530 --> 00:35:42,780
um waiting in the green room also known

868
00:35:47,450 --> 00:35:45,540
as the Earth one of our very

869
00:35:50,569 --> 00:35:47,460
um Regular audience members I'm gonna

870
00:35:52,430 --> 00:35:50,579
bring her right on stream

871
00:35:56,210 --> 00:35:52,440
hey welcome to Invisible night school

872
00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:56,220
hello hello can you hear me yes we can

873
00:35:59,930 --> 00:35:58,560
okay and you're not getting any feedback

874
00:36:02,150 --> 00:35:59,940
or anything

875
00:36:05,710 --> 00:36:02,160
no rattles you sound great yeah okay

876
00:36:10,730 --> 00:36:08,870
thanks for uh joining us yeah and um

877
00:36:13,490 --> 00:36:10,740
could you just uh let everybody know

878
00:36:15,890 --> 00:36:13,500
like you have a new podcast that you're

879
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:15,900
launching uh right uh could you talk

880
00:36:20,569 --> 00:36:18,000
about that a little bit

881
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:20,579
um yeah it's called the Earth that's uh

882
00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:23,040
also my channel name uh I know that

883
00:36:28,490 --> 00:36:25,680
causes some confusion I'm not actually

884
00:36:32,510 --> 00:36:28,500
the Earth well I mean

885
00:36:33,530 --> 00:36:32,520
technically we all are the earth I guess

886
00:36:36,770 --> 00:36:33,540
um

887
00:36:38,030 --> 00:36:36,780
and uh yeah it's a podcast that uh it's

888
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:38,040
basically

889
00:36:45,770 --> 00:36:42,240
um it's it's an act of anthropomancy

890
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:45,780
so it's uh divination

891
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:51,650
of communicating with humans

892
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:54,960
to to kind of create uh to reinforce the

893
00:37:02,390 --> 00:36:57,599
enchantment that exists in the world

894
00:37:04,250 --> 00:37:02,400
um uh Brian Estes was on a a few weeks

895
00:37:06,010 --> 00:37:04,260
ago is that his name am I getting the

896
00:37:08,810 --> 00:37:06,020
name right

897
00:37:12,109 --> 00:37:08,820
oh sentence on Art yep yeah brand

898
00:37:14,750 --> 00:37:12,119
centers transposing letters there but he

899
00:37:17,329 --> 00:37:14,760
was talking about uh poesis I believe or

900
00:37:19,730 --> 00:37:17,339
someone in the chat was and it it's kind

901
00:37:23,210 --> 00:37:19,740
of like that so it's basically an it's

902
00:37:25,310 --> 00:37:23,220
it's a performance of magic uh in the

903
00:37:29,390 --> 00:37:25,320
form of Internet content

904
00:37:32,329 --> 00:37:29,400
and I'm co-opting internet content to to

905
00:37:36,050 --> 00:37:32,339
basically and re-enchant the world to to

906
00:37:38,930 --> 00:37:36,060
recreate re-summon the realm of fiery

907
00:37:42,050 --> 00:37:38,940
in the world today and and to end the

908
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:42,060
human delusion of disenchantment

909
00:37:47,690 --> 00:37:44,880
and I'm doing that through

910
00:37:50,210 --> 00:37:47,700
science communication

911
00:37:51,710 --> 00:37:50,220
I'm communicating about science but

912
00:37:52,849 --> 00:37:51,720
specifically the science of the

913
00:37:56,569 --> 00:37:52,859
Paranormal

914
00:37:57,829 --> 00:37:56,579
interesting very cool is is this

915
00:37:59,990 --> 00:37:57,839
available now

916
00:38:01,190 --> 00:38:00,000
uh yeah absolutely

917
00:38:03,170 --> 00:38:01,200
um

918
00:38:04,730 --> 00:38:03,180
you can go to YouTube I haven't I

919
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:04,740
haven't actually uploaded the latest

920
00:38:11,569 --> 00:38:07,920
episode to YouTube but I also have

921
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:11,579
um you can go to anchor.fm slash

922
00:38:20,030 --> 00:38:17,569
yeah and I thought it was a neat uh

923
00:38:22,670 --> 00:38:20,040
project and I liked your philosophy that

924
00:38:25,790 --> 00:38:22,680
you described uh it's being

925
00:38:28,670 --> 00:38:25,800
um considerate and non-judgmental and

926
00:38:30,430 --> 00:38:28,680
engaging with the observations and I

927
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:30,440
thought it was pretty neat you uh

928
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:32,640
interviewed or talked side conversations

929
00:38:37,550 --> 00:38:35,520
with a person who uh sees something in

930
00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:37,560
the atmosphere and it's not clear what

931
00:38:41,690 --> 00:38:39,119
it is but then you talk to them about

932
00:38:43,849 --> 00:38:41,700
like how that experience affects their

933
00:38:46,670 --> 00:38:43,859
personality and things like that and

934
00:38:49,130 --> 00:38:46,680
then you uh interviewed me and uh we're

935
00:38:51,530 --> 00:38:49,140
talking about like that what I interpret

936
00:38:53,150 --> 00:38:51,540
as Hypno Palm pick hallucinations and

937
00:38:55,970 --> 00:38:53,160
you're just sticking to the observations

938
00:38:58,130 --> 00:38:55,980
and sort of like seeing how these things

939
00:39:00,589 --> 00:38:58,140
uh cause people to interact with the

940
00:39:02,510 --> 00:39:00,599
world has structure identity around it

941
00:39:04,430 --> 00:39:02,520
um I appreciate that uh focus on the

942
00:39:07,250 --> 00:39:04,440
observation because something that we

943
00:39:09,530 --> 00:39:07,260
focus on so many times is that it there

944
00:39:11,089 --> 00:39:09,540
is a huge issue right now where the

945
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:11,099
interpretation of what's being observed

946
00:39:15,230 --> 00:39:13,200
affects people's ability to accept that

947
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:15,240
an observation has been made

948
00:39:21,050 --> 00:39:16,800
to be here

949
00:39:26,510 --> 00:39:23,210
right now it's an interesting time in

950
00:39:28,730 --> 00:39:26,520
human history because I think that the

951
00:39:30,710 --> 00:39:28,740
the fringes of science you know the

952
00:39:32,450 --> 00:39:30,720
frontiers of science people want to

953
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:32,460
think that the frontiers of science are

954
00:39:36,109 --> 00:39:34,079
you know like

955
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:36,119
um you know at the bottom of the ocean

956
00:39:41,150 --> 00:39:38,880
or in deep space and I mean those are

957
00:39:44,210 --> 00:39:41,160
Frontiers in science but the real

958
00:39:46,609 --> 00:39:44,220
Frontier in science is really humans and

959
00:39:49,310 --> 00:39:46,619
Human Experience and and things like

960
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:49,320
human belief and any any form of

961
00:39:54,770 --> 00:39:52,079
anthropology I think those are really

962
00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:54,780
the the most Cutting Edge forms of

963
00:39:57,470 --> 00:39:55,920
science

964
00:40:00,829 --> 00:39:57,480
because

965
00:40:03,349 --> 00:40:00,839
of how incredibly difficult and how many

966
00:40:07,970 --> 00:40:03,359
methodological problems arise from that

967
00:40:12,290 --> 00:40:07,980
and I think I think UFOs are are very

968
00:40:14,930 --> 00:40:12,300
tied up in that because so many times

969
00:40:17,890 --> 00:40:14,940
that people have these experiences they

970
00:40:20,450 --> 00:40:17,900
they correlate them with UFOs

971
00:40:23,990 --> 00:40:20,460
and uh

972
00:40:25,130 --> 00:40:24,000
yeah so uh sorry I totally just lost my

973
00:40:26,349 --> 00:40:25,140
train of thought

974
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:26,359
um

975
00:40:32,210 --> 00:40:30,720
say that this is the question I keep

976
00:40:34,430 --> 00:40:32,220
coming back to

977
00:40:37,010 --> 00:40:34,440
um I speak with and correspond with a

978
00:40:38,569 --> 00:40:37,020
number of experiencers and I'm always so

979
00:40:40,970 --> 00:40:38,579
curious about how they made the

980
00:40:43,010 --> 00:40:40,980
connection between their experience and

981
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:43,020
ufology

982
00:40:47,210 --> 00:40:43,920
um

983
00:40:50,810 --> 00:40:47,220
like how what was kind of the cultural

984
00:40:52,730 --> 00:40:50,820
framing or the conversation or the movie

985
00:40:54,589 --> 00:40:52,740
or whatever that they saw or engaged

986
00:40:57,770 --> 00:40:54,599
with that made them connect what

987
00:40:58,730 --> 00:40:57,780
happened to them with ufology and I'm I

988
00:41:01,250 --> 00:40:58,740
also

989
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:01,260
um totally agree I you know Nick has

990
00:41:05,210 --> 00:41:03,599
brought the point up frequently about

991
00:41:07,970 --> 00:41:05,220
how

992
00:41:10,970 --> 00:41:07,980
the technology that people report around

993
00:41:13,069 --> 00:41:10,980
UFOs is only slightly ahead of the

994
00:41:16,010 --> 00:41:13,079
technology that we currently have right

995
00:41:17,390 --> 00:41:16,020
so airships flying saucers

996
00:41:19,270 --> 00:41:17,400
um sort of

997
00:41:22,370 --> 00:41:19,280
um and on and on and I think

998
00:41:25,310 --> 00:41:22,380
increasingly as we see the

999
00:41:27,950 --> 00:41:25,320
popular conversations in this subject

1000
00:41:31,310 --> 00:41:27,960
start to orient more around questions of

1001
00:41:32,329 --> 00:41:31,320
Consciousness and PSY like that speaks

1002
00:41:34,670 --> 00:41:32,339
to

1003
00:41:36,770 --> 00:41:34,680
um tulisma exactly like what you said

1004
00:41:39,170 --> 00:41:36,780
about

1005
00:41:40,970 --> 00:41:39,180
um the human mind being kind of this or

1006
00:41:43,130 --> 00:41:40,980
The Human Experience being this kind of

1007
00:41:45,950 --> 00:41:43,140
Frontier for Science and study and

1008
00:41:47,930 --> 00:41:45,960
exploration now uh Beyond then or

1009
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:47,940
further Beyond than what we see and just

1010
00:41:51,890 --> 00:41:49,920
the material exploration of our world

1011
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:51,900
and even our oceans

1012
00:41:56,990 --> 00:41:55,200
yeah um and you know I do also on the

1013
00:41:59,210 --> 00:41:57,000
other hand though I do think that the

1014
00:42:02,990 --> 00:41:59,220
physical study of UAP and the physical

1015
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:03,000
study of of preternatural phenomena are

1016
00:42:09,170 --> 00:42:05,040
is very important and

1017
00:42:11,930 --> 00:42:09,180
you know for me I feel that uh um I was

1018
00:42:13,730 --> 00:42:11,940
really influenced by Jenny Randalls who

1019
00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:13,740
uh you know she was the head of the

1020
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:16,800
British UFO uh research Agency for a

1021
00:42:20,750 --> 00:42:18,480
really long time she published a lot of

1022
00:42:23,089 --> 00:42:20,760
very popular paper box

1023
00:42:27,349 --> 00:42:23,099
um and she

1024
00:42:29,810 --> 00:42:27,359
um she had both like uh you know uh

1025
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:29,820
experiences that she would regard as

1026
00:42:34,310 --> 00:42:32,160
apparitional or hallucinatory and she

1027
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:34,320
also had experiences that she described

1028
00:42:40,849 --> 00:42:38,160
as physical phenomena as UAP and she

1029
00:42:42,650 --> 00:42:40,859
felt that she one could with enough

1030
00:42:44,810 --> 00:42:42,660
information distinguish between those

1031
00:42:46,970 --> 00:42:44,820
but she also thought that there might be

1032
00:42:50,990 --> 00:42:46,980
a third category of experience that

1033
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:51,000
subjectivity and objectivity actually uh

1034
00:42:56,210 --> 00:42:53,520
occur along a spectrum right so that

1035
00:42:58,490 --> 00:42:56,220
it's nothing is purely objective nothing

1036
00:43:01,309 --> 00:42:58,500
is purely subjective we have these

1037
00:43:03,410 --> 00:43:01,319
models being created in our minds and

1038
00:43:06,109 --> 00:43:03,420
and also you know Collective models and

1039
00:43:07,849 --> 00:43:06,119
things like that and so I think that

1040
00:43:10,490 --> 00:43:07,859
that you know

1041
00:43:12,890 --> 00:43:10,500
there's a possibility that that they're

1042
00:43:15,770 --> 00:43:12,900
truly exotic

1043
00:43:17,930 --> 00:43:15,780
phenomena in Earth's atmosphere

1044
00:43:21,710 --> 00:43:17,940
um and but also that there could be

1045
00:43:24,530 --> 00:43:21,720
systems in nature in in the ecosystem

1046
00:43:27,530 --> 00:43:24,540
you know in microbiomes and things like

1047
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:27,540
that interacting with the human body

1048
00:43:32,270 --> 00:43:30,240
that we don't know about

1049
00:43:33,050 --> 00:43:32,280
mm-hmm that's

1050
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:33,060
um

1051
00:43:37,450 --> 00:43:35,520
that's Bernardo costrips framing as well

1052
00:43:40,309 --> 00:43:37,460
this sort of

1053
00:43:43,069 --> 00:43:40,319
objectivity versus subjectivity being a

1054
00:43:45,230 --> 00:43:43,079
spectrum and I mean when sentis was only

1055
00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:45,240
talked a lot about philology and how

1056
00:43:49,069 --> 00:43:47,040
language and historical reporting

1057
00:43:51,050 --> 00:43:49,079
differs from how we do it now right how

1058
00:43:54,589 --> 00:43:51,060
we kind of draw clear demarcations

1059
00:43:56,930 --> 00:43:54,599
between fact and fiction in 2022 but

1060
00:43:58,490 --> 00:43:56,940
this was not the standard convention for

1061
00:44:01,490 --> 00:43:58,500
most of human history

1062
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:04,490
um yeah and uh uh I brought this up in

1063
00:44:08,990 --> 00:44:06,240
the comments before of um in

1064
00:44:09,710 --> 00:44:09,000
anthropology there are these two major

1065
00:44:14,809 --> 00:44:09,720
um

1066
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:14,819
specific uh methods but just very broad

1067
00:44:20,089 --> 00:44:16,800
approaches one being emic and the other

1068
00:44:21,530 --> 00:44:20,099
being epic and um I always confuse these

1069
00:44:23,630 --> 00:44:21,540
because they're only one letter apart

1070
00:44:25,250 --> 00:44:23,640
but basically emik I believe is the one

1071
00:44:28,609 --> 00:44:25,260
that it's it's basically you're studying

1072
00:44:30,530 --> 00:44:28,619
from the inside of a culture and the

1073
00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:30,540
attic you're studying from the outside

1074
00:44:35,870 --> 00:44:33,359
of the culture basically neither of

1075
00:44:39,170 --> 00:44:35,880
these is purely objective or subjective

1076
00:44:40,970 --> 00:44:39,180
but in order to understand a person's

1077
00:44:43,309 --> 00:44:40,980
experience one also has to understand

1078
00:44:45,770 --> 00:44:43,319
like you know what are the internal

1079
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:45,780
workings the internal symbiologies of

1080
00:44:50,809 --> 00:44:48,000
that person's life

1081
00:44:53,630 --> 00:44:50,819
um as you know and also having that

1082
00:44:57,230 --> 00:44:53,640
Outsider perspective is also

1083
00:44:59,030 --> 00:44:57,240
um really important as well I was going

1084
00:45:01,809 --> 00:44:59,040
somewhere with that and I totally just

1085
00:45:06,530 --> 00:45:04,550
well maybe this is a good time to uh

1086
00:45:09,050 --> 00:45:06,540
move on to the next one then since we're

1087
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:09,060
uh running out of time all right well

1088
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:11,040
thank you thank you for having me on I'm

1089
00:45:14,809 --> 00:45:13,440
sorry of course do no this was our

1090
00:45:17,210 --> 00:45:14,819
pleasure um do you want to plug your

1091
00:45:19,370 --> 00:45:17,220
show Once More yes please

1092
00:45:23,390 --> 00:45:19,380
um yeah it's called the Earth uh you can

1093
00:45:26,809 --> 00:45:23,400
find it at anchor.fm the Earth

1094
00:45:31,390 --> 00:45:26,819
um uh and it's available on a ton of

1095
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:34,130
thanks so much for jumping in yeah I'll

1096
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:35,520
get that added to the show description

1097
00:45:41,630 --> 00:45:38,640
thanks so much for stopping by awesome

1098
00:45:43,550 --> 00:45:41,640
that discussion there really uh makes me

1099
00:45:45,710 --> 00:45:43,560
feel like I want to jump in a little bit

1100
00:45:47,150 --> 00:45:45,720
to the culture side of things if we're

1101
00:45:49,609 --> 00:45:47,160
uh open to that

1102
00:45:50,690 --> 00:45:49,619
okay yeah I think it's again where do

1103
00:45:54,950 --> 00:45:50,700
you want to start

1104
00:45:57,050 --> 00:45:54,960
um

1105
00:46:00,710 --> 00:45:57,060
should we start uh based on the timeline

1106
00:46:03,290 --> 00:46:00,720
through the year yeah yeah okay sure

1107
00:46:06,829 --> 00:46:03,300
so what was the earliest kind of uh

1108
00:46:09,109 --> 00:46:06,839
cultural UFO Twitter Milestone that we

1109
00:46:12,410 --> 00:46:09,119
we experienced this past year

1110
00:46:14,089 --> 00:46:12,420
close up here for me

1111
00:46:17,930 --> 00:46:14,099
um so I wasn't visible in the community

1112
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:17,940
before like June or July but the first

1113
00:46:25,010 --> 00:46:20,400
episode of UCR that I heard was the one

1114
00:46:26,930 --> 00:46:25,020
the infamous one with Lou Elizondo

1115
00:46:30,650 --> 00:46:26,940
um and I heard it while I was driving

1116
00:46:33,170 --> 00:46:30,660
across the country and

1117
00:46:35,690 --> 00:46:33,180
um that was kind of what got me sucked

1118
00:46:37,730 --> 00:46:35,700
into the existing uh UFO Community

1119
00:46:39,829 --> 00:46:37,740
between this and Twitter spaces and

1120
00:46:41,990 --> 00:46:39,839
having way too much free time no was

1121
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:42,000
that the discussion about Lou Elizondo

1122
00:46:46,970 --> 00:46:43,760
having sock puppet accounts on Twitter

1123
00:46:49,069 --> 00:46:46,980
yes and you should have seen me because

1124
00:46:51,890 --> 00:46:49,079
I'd be at like a rest stop on my drive

1125
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:51,900
like looking up who is Lou Elizondo

1126
00:46:55,790 --> 00:46:54,240
who's this guy Lou Jimenez why are they

1127
00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:55,800
talking about you know Stephen Green

1128
00:47:00,950 --> 00:46:57,599
Street I didn't know any of these people

1129
00:47:04,309 --> 00:47:00,960
my My Mind and Spirit was as pure as the

1130
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,319
driven snow like yeah and it's like it's

1131
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:06,480
such a weird thing because if you just

1132
00:47:10,730 --> 00:47:08,400
step into it from nowhere it's like

1133
00:47:12,890 --> 00:47:10,740
you'd think oh this is the former

1134
00:47:14,030 --> 00:47:12,900
director of like a major Pentagon

1135
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:14,040
program I know that's not verified

1136
00:47:18,890 --> 00:47:16,560
obviously but that's what you think and

1137
00:47:21,410 --> 00:47:18,900
then he's like on there like just kind

1138
00:47:23,089 --> 00:47:21,420
of berating people who have been

1139
00:47:24,890 --> 00:47:23,099
supporting him for years and you know

1140
00:47:28,849 --> 00:47:24,900
there's backstory and stuff but it was a

1141
00:47:30,890 --> 00:47:28,859
little bit shocking to see the way that

1142
00:47:33,890 --> 00:47:30,900
he sort of held himself through that

1143
00:47:35,930 --> 00:47:33,900
conversation in light of his history of

1144
00:47:37,390 --> 00:47:35,940
man like actually being in the Pentagon

1145
00:47:39,950 --> 00:47:37,400
managing teams

1146
00:47:41,630 --> 00:47:39,960
now and that that spun a lot of

1147
00:47:43,849 --> 00:47:41,640
discussion about

1148
00:47:46,190 --> 00:47:43,859
um what seemed to me like people's

1149
00:47:48,230 --> 00:47:46,200
inability to discern the difference

1150
00:47:49,609 --> 00:47:48,240
between a sock puppet account and an

1151
00:47:52,130 --> 00:47:49,619
anonymous account

1152
00:47:54,050 --> 00:47:52,140
right and I think the major distinction

1153
00:47:56,809 --> 00:47:54,060
here is that like if you're on if you're

1154
00:47:58,670 --> 00:47:56,819
anonymous on Twitter like a good number

1155
00:48:00,470 --> 00:47:58,680
of our friends are you're still

1156
00:48:02,930 --> 00:48:00,480
representing yourself as that Anonymous

1157
00:48:04,550 --> 00:48:02,940
name as that pseudonym when a sock

1158
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,560
puppet account you are pretending to be

1159
00:48:09,170 --> 00:48:06,720
a different person and in fact you

1160
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:09,180
interact maybe with yourself or with

1161
00:48:13,309 --> 00:48:10,800
other people

1162
00:48:15,770 --> 00:48:13,319
under the guise of being another person

1163
00:48:18,589 --> 00:48:15,780
right and that that was kind of the

1164
00:48:21,609 --> 00:48:18,599
issue with Lou Elizondo he was using

1165
00:48:24,170 --> 00:48:21,619
yeah I I guess it's not like

1166
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:24,180
conclusively proven but he was uh the

1167
00:48:29,690 --> 00:48:26,160
faceless bureaucrat account also right

1168
00:48:32,690 --> 00:48:29,700
and that person is kind of get into

1169
00:48:35,150 --> 00:48:32,700
fights and uh go after people a little

1170
00:48:37,390 --> 00:48:35,160
bit when he couldn't publicly do that I

1171
00:48:40,970 --> 00:48:37,400
think that was kind of the premise right

1172
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:40,980
I I have to upfront admit that like

1173
00:48:45,470 --> 00:48:43,200
coming out of the UFO scene after my

1174
00:48:50,329 --> 00:48:45,480
long Hiatus um

1175
00:48:52,370 --> 00:48:50,339
I the the whole atip and ttsa stuff I

1176
00:48:53,870 --> 00:48:52,380
wasn't feeling it from the jump so I

1177
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:53,880
didn't pay close attention to these

1178
00:48:58,670 --> 00:48:56,640
things uh Elizondo I caught a whiff of

1179
00:49:02,210 --> 00:48:58,680
that and I was just like yeah no

1180
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:02,220
yeah Leah what about the um the thing

1181
00:49:07,910 --> 00:49:05,760
that you saw with Elizondo on UCR what

1182
00:49:09,290 --> 00:49:07,920
made you wanna this is something I want

1183
00:49:11,809 --> 00:49:09,300
to dive into

1184
00:49:14,690 --> 00:49:11,819
well I mean remember I didn't have any

1185
00:49:16,130 --> 00:49:14,700
of the background or contacts and when I

1186
00:49:18,170 --> 00:49:16,140
listened to it

1187
00:49:20,210 --> 00:49:18,180
frankly it didn't even seem like that

1188
00:49:22,130 --> 00:49:20,220
much of a super contentious conversation

1189
00:49:24,050 --> 00:49:22,140
it got a little heated but I didn't

1190
00:49:28,190 --> 00:49:24,060
listen to it and think

1191
00:49:30,349 --> 00:49:28,200
wow there's a lot of anger and intensity

1192
00:49:32,510 --> 00:49:30,359
here I just thought oh I think there was

1193
00:49:34,190 --> 00:49:32,520
some weird miscommunication going on I

1194
00:49:36,290 --> 00:49:34,200
think you know I think it's also time to

1195
00:49:37,970 --> 00:49:36,300
comment and say that for some and it

1196
00:49:40,010 --> 00:49:37,980
reminds me of how people feel about Mick

1197
00:49:42,530 --> 00:49:40,020
West where there's something about

1198
00:49:44,690 --> 00:49:42,540
rather that seems to just some people

1199
00:49:47,809 --> 00:49:44,700
just don't like this guy and it

1200
00:49:49,609 --> 00:49:47,819
completely mystifies me like yeah you

1201
00:49:51,050 --> 00:49:49,619
know it's like Midwest I think just

1202
00:49:52,849 --> 00:49:51,060
because he has an accent people think

1203
00:49:53,950 --> 00:49:52,859
he's an [\h__\h]

1204
00:49:57,890 --> 00:49:53,960
um

1205
00:49:59,390 --> 00:49:57,900
and I can remember

1206
00:50:01,670 --> 00:49:59,400
listening

1207
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:01,680
uh shortly thereafter to the interview

1208
00:50:07,309 --> 00:50:03,680
with like John Ramirez

1209
00:50:09,650 --> 00:50:07,319
and also got super contentious over some

1210
00:50:12,770 --> 00:50:09,660
question that to me at the time didn't

1211
00:50:15,470 --> 00:50:12,780
seem like a particularly big deal

1212
00:50:17,809 --> 00:50:15,480
um so I did hear this UCR conversation

1213
00:50:19,730 --> 00:50:17,819
with Elizondo and really what it did was

1214
00:50:21,230 --> 00:50:19,740
it made me spend a lot of time reading

1215
00:50:23,930 --> 00:50:21,240
about who these people actually were

1216
00:50:25,790 --> 00:50:23,940
like who was Lou Elizondo what was his

1217
00:50:28,010 --> 00:50:25,800
involvement in this subject and then

1218
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:28,020
having to Wade through some of the UCR

1219
00:50:33,109 --> 00:50:30,960
backlog to start piecing together kind

1220
00:50:36,109 --> 00:50:33,119
of the broader narrative that was behind

1221
00:50:39,250 --> 00:50:36,119
that particular episode right

1222
00:50:41,809 --> 00:50:39,260
and then of course uh almost red diet

1223
00:50:43,849 --> 00:50:41,819
led directly into

1224
00:50:47,390 --> 00:50:43,859
um we guess we're calling comma gate on

1225
00:50:50,270 --> 00:50:47,400
our schedule right and this was the um

1226
00:50:52,670 --> 00:50:50,280
the Revelation that Elizondo was

1227
00:50:55,370 --> 00:50:52,680
communicating with certain uh content

1228
00:50:57,290 --> 00:50:55,380
creators uh passing around a list of

1229
00:50:59,270 --> 00:50:57,300
people not to be involved with uh and

1230
00:51:03,470 --> 00:50:59,280
there was some confusion over

1231
00:51:05,450 --> 00:51:03,480
the the there's the term felon five

1232
00:51:07,609 --> 00:51:05,460
yeah and there was some confusion over

1233
00:51:10,910 --> 00:51:07,619
whether that regarded uh five separate

1234
00:51:14,089 --> 00:51:10,920
people or that was uh a nickname for a

1235
00:51:16,970 --> 00:51:14,099
specific an adjectival description for

1236
00:51:19,849 --> 00:51:16,980
one person or a like categorical

1237
00:51:20,690 --> 00:51:19,859
designation for five discreet people I

1238
00:51:23,450 --> 00:51:20,700
think

1239
00:51:26,990 --> 00:51:23,460
um regardless of that uh spreading lists

1240
00:51:28,010 --> 00:51:27,000
around is is a little strange to me

1241
00:51:30,829 --> 00:51:28,020
um

1242
00:51:33,829 --> 00:51:30,839
my two cents uh I'm not really sure what

1243
00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:33,839
being a felon is supposed to mean either

1244
00:51:37,790 --> 00:51:36,240
right is that's that's negative I

1245
00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:37,800
suppose

1246
00:51:44,690 --> 00:51:41,280
yeah well you know you know thing is so

1247
00:51:47,390 --> 00:51:44,700
strange we have somebody Lou Alexander

1248
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:47,400
who we know worked in the Pentagon we

1249
00:51:51,290 --> 00:51:48,960
don't know exactly what he did he claims

1250
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:51,300
he was the director of the uh you know

1251
00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:53,040
Advanced airspace threat identification

1252
00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:55,920
program the available reporting on the

1253
00:51:58,250 --> 00:51:57,119
subject suggests that that was

1254
00:51:59,870 --> 00:51:58,260
terminated before he took it over

1255
00:52:01,670 --> 00:51:59,880
there's contention around whether that

1256
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:01,680
actually happened or not and then he's

1257
00:52:06,770 --> 00:52:03,359
coming on to these shows and then it's

1258
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:06,780
verified that he he confirms he it you

1259
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:08,640
know that he's still working for the

1260
00:52:12,410 --> 00:52:10,800
government under contract and then he

1261
00:52:14,390 --> 00:52:12,420
confirms on the show that he's using

1262
00:52:17,210 --> 00:52:14,400
sock puppets to influence the

1263
00:52:18,950 --> 00:52:17,220
community's conversations and then he's

1264
00:52:20,750 --> 00:52:18,960
also acknowledging

1265
00:52:23,270 --> 00:52:20,760
that he or he's also sending around

1266
00:52:25,370 --> 00:52:23,280
lists of things to his content creators

1267
00:52:28,190 --> 00:52:25,380
about who to talk to and not and it's

1268
00:52:30,349 --> 00:52:28,200
like he's doing it in such a strange way

1269
00:52:32,990 --> 00:52:30,359
where it's like in your face but then

1270
00:52:34,849 --> 00:52:33,000
it's like none of it's it I I don't get

1271
00:52:37,130 --> 00:52:34,859
it that's the thing it's so strange it

1272
00:52:39,109 --> 00:52:37,140
doesn't seem like if he was the director

1273
00:52:42,109 --> 00:52:39,119
of this major program and stuff it does

1274
00:52:44,270 --> 00:52:42,119
the behaviors don't really mesh for me

1275
00:52:46,370 --> 00:52:44,280
someone who behaves in that way in my

1276
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:46,380
opinion is not someone to trust well

1277
00:52:51,049 --> 00:52:48,720
that's certainly true though I mean

1278
00:52:52,970 --> 00:52:51,059
sorry this um

1279
00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:52,980
this goes back to what I harp on

1280
00:52:56,569 --> 00:52:54,480
constantly which is a willingness to

1281
00:52:58,849 --> 00:52:56,579
have hard conversations

1282
00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:58,859
um and the way you build trust or create

1283
00:53:03,530 --> 00:53:00,960
high trust relationships both

1284
00:53:06,650 --> 00:53:03,540
professionally personally romantically

1285
00:53:08,930 --> 00:53:06,660
Etc is to be willing to in good faith

1286
00:53:11,930 --> 00:53:08,940
engage in difficult conversations and

1287
00:53:12,589 --> 00:53:11,940
ask and answer difficult conversations

1288
00:53:17,990 --> 00:53:12,599
um

1289
00:53:21,230 --> 00:53:18,000
from another party right like when when

1290
00:53:23,150 --> 00:53:21,240
I see someone who constantly harps on

1291
00:53:24,470 --> 00:53:23,160
how everyone else is an [\h__\h] all it

1292
00:53:26,750 --> 00:53:24,480
makes me think is that person's an

1293
00:53:29,569 --> 00:53:26,760
[\h__\h] right and

1294
00:53:32,089 --> 00:53:29,579
um like similarly whenever I

1295
00:53:34,670 --> 00:53:32,099
see people refuse to answer questions or

1296
00:53:36,170 --> 00:53:34,680
behave disingenuously or dishonestly it

1297
00:53:37,670 --> 00:53:36,180
makes me think that they have a chip in

1298
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:37,680
their shoulder and assume everybody else

1299
00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:39,599
is as much of a grifter or dishonest

1300
00:53:46,670 --> 00:53:42,480
person as they are it's projection all

1301
00:53:51,470 --> 00:53:49,190
so that was that was comedy and does

1302
00:53:54,890 --> 00:53:51,480
anybody remember the timing of that

1303
00:53:56,270 --> 00:53:54,900
was it was it was yeah it was like the

1304
00:54:00,109 --> 00:53:56,280
end of May

1305
00:54:01,750 --> 00:54:00,119
man I guess it's a long year okay and

1306
00:54:05,089 --> 00:54:01,760
that means

1307
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:05,099
and that kind of ties in time line wise

1308
00:54:12,410 --> 00:54:08,400
with the whole Elizondo with his

1309
00:54:16,549 --> 00:54:12,420
um investigator uh uh general report and

1310
00:54:18,470 --> 00:54:16,559
all of the IG report yes yeah and um so

1311
00:54:20,930 --> 00:54:18,480
I think the first time I heard about his

1312
00:54:22,849 --> 00:54:20,940
IG report was the

1313
00:54:26,750 --> 00:54:22,859
I want to say it was a debrief article

1314
00:54:28,790 --> 00:54:26,760
by McMillan about Reed and how he was

1315
00:54:29,450 --> 00:54:28,800
fired from his position

1316
00:54:32,089 --> 00:54:29,460
um

1317
00:54:35,809 --> 00:54:32,099
in the article I want to say implied

1318
00:54:37,490 --> 00:54:35,819
that the IG complaint uh had some

1319
00:54:40,190 --> 00:54:37,500
responsibility in removing him from his

1320
00:54:41,450 --> 00:54:40,200
position as well as uh claims of sexual

1321
00:54:43,069 --> 00:54:41,460
harassment

1322
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:43,079
now

1323
00:54:52,069 --> 00:54:49,680
is it Gary Reed yeah Gary Reed is in a

1324
00:54:56,089 --> 00:54:54,290
um I don't have any any further

1325
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:56,099
information from that he was not fired

1326
00:55:00,890 --> 00:54:58,079
it sounds like

1327
00:55:02,690 --> 00:55:00,900
um removed might be the right word or

1328
00:55:03,710 --> 00:55:02,700
transferred might be the right word or

1329
00:55:09,170 --> 00:55:03,720
like

1330
00:55:12,530 --> 00:55:09,180
um and as far as I know that IG

1331
00:55:16,010 --> 00:55:12,540
complaint is not resolved otherwise it

1332
00:55:21,170 --> 00:55:18,530
I don't know honestly like if I remember

1333
00:55:22,730 --> 00:55:21,180
correctly I thought that like doesn't uh

1334
00:55:25,069 --> 00:55:22,740
done a couple journalists actually have

1335
00:55:26,750 --> 00:55:25,079
a full version of it or is it only the

1336
00:55:28,130 --> 00:55:26,760
submission that they have they don't

1337
00:55:30,829 --> 00:55:28,140
actually have a resolution the full

1338
00:55:33,109 --> 00:55:30,839
version was leaked by Green Street

1339
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:33,119
um on one of his uh basement office

1340
00:55:37,910 --> 00:55:35,520
episodes because he made reference to it

1341
00:55:40,250 --> 00:55:37,920
in that video and a number of us I think

1342
00:55:41,630 --> 00:55:40,260
I included said you need to cite your

1343
00:55:43,490 --> 00:55:41,640
sources

1344
00:55:45,829 --> 00:55:43,500
primarily because I wanted to read it

1345
00:55:48,410 --> 00:55:45,839
myself and then I think about a week

1346
00:55:50,510 --> 00:55:48,420
later after uploading it he updated the

1347
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:50,520
the sources in that video and it was on

1348
00:55:55,549 --> 00:55:53,280
there that was leaked directly by Green

1349
00:55:56,950 --> 00:55:55,559
Street and he claims that it was given

1350
00:55:59,510 --> 00:55:56,960
to him by

1351
00:56:01,069 --> 00:55:59,520
elizondo's management I suppose that was

1352
00:56:03,170 --> 00:56:01,079
a little unclear about the exact person

1353
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:03,180
who gave it to him and there was a

1354
00:56:06,049 --> 00:56:04,559
little bit of uh there's a little bit of

1355
00:56:07,309 --> 00:56:06,059
a kerfuffle about that people were

1356
00:56:08,510 --> 00:56:07,319
really upset that he released that

1357
00:56:10,190 --> 00:56:08,520
thinking that maybe he wasn't supposed

1358
00:56:11,569 --> 00:56:10,200
to especially because if it's an ongoing

1359
00:56:13,309 --> 00:56:11,579
investigation

1360
00:56:15,049 --> 00:56:13,319
you know that could be sensitive

1361
00:56:15,890 --> 00:56:15,059
material

1362
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:15,900
um

1363
00:56:20,750 --> 00:56:18,240
but yeah it's it's out there

1364
00:56:22,010 --> 00:56:20,760
it's I like I have a copy I can just

1365
00:56:24,349 --> 00:56:22,020
send it to you

1366
00:56:26,450 --> 00:56:24,359
I think I'm okay for doing that you know

1367
00:56:29,809 --> 00:56:26,460
who I think knows a bit more about this

1368
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:29,819
I I may be wrong is Steve long who's in

1369
00:56:33,410 --> 00:56:31,440
the chat right now

1370
00:56:35,750 --> 00:56:33,420
he is in the chat um and I'm also gonna

1371
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:35,760
jump in and say I'm sharing out the

1372
00:56:40,250 --> 00:56:37,440
stream yard link periodically in there

1373
00:56:40,849 --> 00:56:40,260
so if anyone wants to jump on the stream

1374
00:56:43,250 --> 00:56:40,859
um

1375
00:56:45,109 --> 00:56:43,260
with Dr have you just you'll land in the

1376
00:56:46,670 --> 00:56:45,119
green room and then I'll get you outed

1377
00:56:48,349 --> 00:56:46,680
Steve I would love it if you could come

1378
00:56:49,730 --> 00:56:48,359
in here and either tell me I'm wrong and

1379
00:56:53,569 --> 00:56:49,740
you don't know anything about that or

1380
00:56:58,910 --> 00:56:56,270
now he's not gonna do anything

1381
00:57:01,069 --> 00:56:58,920
oh he's going to be on um in February

1382
00:57:02,809 --> 00:57:01,079
though so we'll get a chance to talk

1383
00:57:04,970 --> 00:57:02,819
shop with him yeah he had a great

1384
00:57:07,430 --> 00:57:04,980
conversation with Jeff recently yeah

1385
00:57:09,170 --> 00:57:07,440
that's right so did you Nick by the way

1386
00:57:10,370 --> 00:57:09,180
your conversation on strange Recon was

1387
00:57:12,049 --> 00:57:10,380
really great

1388
00:57:13,870 --> 00:57:12,059
yeah that was really good I don't know

1389
00:57:16,370 --> 00:57:13,880
what we talked about

1390
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:16,380
you started it with the sunglasses on

1391
00:57:22,069 --> 00:57:20,160
you remember that oh yes yeah that was

1392
00:57:25,790 --> 00:57:22,079
good uh and then I'm actually going to

1393
00:57:28,670 --> 00:57:25,800
be on uh tomorrow at uh 10 a.m and then

1394
00:57:30,890 --> 00:57:28,680
Leah you're I'm on next Friday on next

1395
00:57:34,609 --> 00:57:30,900
Friday nice yeah next Friday Friday the

1396
00:57:36,370 --> 00:57:34,619
13th oh nice uh why does he go on so

1397
00:57:39,410 --> 00:57:36,380
early though

1398
00:57:41,150 --> 00:57:39,420
Manish uh whatever UFO show or whatever

1399
00:57:43,309 --> 00:57:41,160
I guess yeah I guess he's the only one

1400
00:57:45,710 --> 00:57:43,319
doing it in the morning right yeah and

1401
00:57:48,049 --> 00:57:45,720
then you can hit uh hit the uh Europe uh

1402
00:57:49,250 --> 00:57:48,059
crowd I guess because they're five six

1403
00:57:51,530 --> 00:57:49,260
oh yeah it's right in the middle of the

1404
00:57:52,930 --> 00:57:51,540
afternoon I know Simon appreciates that

1405
00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:52,940
so that's good

1406
00:57:57,530 --> 00:57:55,200
yeah now he's mapping really good combos

1407
00:57:59,569 --> 00:57:57,540
over there with Jeff yeah yeah spaces

1408
00:58:01,490 --> 00:57:59,579
have been really fun too I popped into

1409
00:58:03,829 --> 00:58:01,500
one just before Jeopardy earlier today

1410
00:58:05,410 --> 00:58:03,839
uh I think people were talking Campbell

1411
00:58:08,569 --> 00:58:05,420
were you in there they were talking yeah

1412
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:08,579
yes I was listening uh to it for a while

1413
00:58:14,809 --> 00:58:11,520
uh I was very unhappy with the uh sort

1414
00:58:17,089 --> 00:58:14,819
of 5G elements and uh what's happening

1415
00:58:19,970 --> 00:58:17,099
when you jumped in and sort of corrected

1416
00:58:21,349 --> 00:58:19,980
that trajectory as best as I could you

1417
00:58:25,130 --> 00:58:21,359
know I mean that's not my wheelhouse

1418
00:58:27,589 --> 00:58:25,140
very much but like it's it's not that

1419
00:58:29,270 --> 00:58:27,599
complicated of a subject right we are

1420
00:58:34,670 --> 00:58:29,280
talking about

1421
00:58:37,609 --> 00:58:36,230
I'm gonna say quick shout out to Kari

1422
00:58:39,829 --> 00:58:37,619
spooky here

1423
00:58:43,309 --> 00:58:39,839
um who is on today

1424
00:58:44,809 --> 00:58:43,319
oh really yeah yep yeah I appreciate

1425
00:58:47,569 --> 00:58:44,819
that Jeff's kind of making the rounds

1426
00:58:49,309 --> 00:58:47,579
around this group you know

1427
00:58:50,690 --> 00:58:49,319
um and yes fruit look pursuant to

1428
00:58:52,130 --> 00:58:50,700
Twitter spaces

1429
00:58:54,530 --> 00:58:52,140
um I think we can all agree that there's

1430
00:58:57,230 --> 00:58:54,540
a critical need to be more visible in

1431
00:58:58,910 --> 00:58:57,240
that space given the caliber and quality

1432
00:59:00,349 --> 00:58:58,920
of conversation we've heard off that

1433
00:59:03,710 --> 00:59:00,359
platform

1434
00:59:05,630 --> 00:59:03,720
um so I would say to audience folks just

1435
00:59:07,609 --> 00:59:05,640
in general keep your eyes peeled we'll

1436
00:59:10,430 --> 00:59:07,619
start hosting more Twitter spaces some

1437
00:59:13,730 --> 00:59:10,440
of these open Line style stuff just some

1438
00:59:17,809 --> 00:59:13,740
themed conversations but I do still feel

1439
00:59:20,210 --> 00:59:17,819
in my heart that and in my mind that the

1440
00:59:21,829 --> 00:59:20,220
primary goal of this entire project is

1441
00:59:23,630 --> 00:59:21,839
to elevate the conversation on these

1442
00:59:26,390 --> 00:59:23,640
subjects and to bring a little bit more

1443
00:59:28,430 --> 00:59:26,400
intellectual rigor and interrogation and

1444
00:59:31,849 --> 00:59:28,440
seriousness

1445
00:59:33,650 --> 00:59:31,859
um and also in turn to show people what

1446
00:59:36,230 --> 00:59:33,660
it looks like to learn and discuss and

1447
00:59:38,630 --> 00:59:36,240
explore in public rather than just

1448
00:59:40,370 --> 00:59:38,640
consume YouTube videos I guess we're one

1449
00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:40,380
of those but just consume YouTube videos

1450
00:59:45,950 --> 00:59:42,720
and listen to other people spout off

1451
00:59:47,690 --> 00:59:45,960
their own opinions so yeah so oh we're

1452
00:59:50,829 --> 00:59:47,700
just Steve long just joined us backstage

1453
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:50,839
there we go okay awesome prayers

1454
00:59:55,549 --> 00:59:54,000
Steve thank you so much

1455
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:55,559
where is what were you going to say Nick

1456
00:59:59,390 --> 00:59:57,599
can I put Chase Howard in the in the

1457
01:00:01,370 --> 00:59:59,400
chat says isn't Lou currently working

1458
01:00:04,309 --> 01:00:01,380
for the space force and didn't Chris

1459
01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:04,319
sharp get Susan Goff to uh confirm that

1460
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:06,480
uh as I understand yeah he's an advisor

1461
01:00:10,490 --> 01:00:08,160
to the space force or at least was

1462
01:00:14,569 --> 01:00:10,500
though I'm not exactly sure what he'd be

1463
01:00:16,970 --> 01:00:14,579
advising on as he is not a UFO guy

1464
01:00:17,809 --> 01:00:16,980
um maybe it's how to

1465
01:00:21,470 --> 01:00:17,819
um

1466
01:00:24,470 --> 01:00:21,480
what's it called uh sap status maybe

1467
01:00:27,109 --> 01:00:24,480
it's it's uh for securing sap status for

1468
01:00:29,390 --> 01:00:27,119
certain things I know he um he did that

1469
01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:29,400
with ASAP right that's why he was kind

1470
01:00:35,030 --> 01:00:31,680
of brought on as security into secure uh

1471
01:00:37,490 --> 01:00:35,040
intercept status for the project which

1472
01:00:38,990 --> 01:00:37,500
um inevitably failed uh it was I think

1473
01:00:42,049 --> 01:00:39,000
that's actually where the name atip came

1474
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:42,059
from right was uh Harry Reid Senator

1475
01:00:46,849 --> 01:00:44,400
Harry Reid was trying to file uh sap

1476
01:00:48,890 --> 01:00:46,859
status for OS app and he called it atip

1477
01:00:50,809 --> 01:00:48,900
I think probably to throw people off the

1478
01:00:53,630 --> 01:00:50,819
trail since they didn't really

1479
01:00:55,789 --> 01:00:53,640
um have much to show for what they did

1480
01:00:58,549 --> 01:00:55,799
with that grant money right that's kind

1481
01:01:03,470 --> 01:00:58,559
of my understanding of how that went

1482
01:01:05,210 --> 01:01:03,480
but anyway sorry bring Steve on Steve

1483
01:01:08,630 --> 01:01:05,220
welcome to Invisible night school friend

1484
01:01:14,329 --> 01:01:10,130
no thanks for having me guys can you

1485
01:01:24,049 --> 01:01:16,309
all right what did we get what are we

1486
01:01:28,010 --> 01:01:26,030
uh-oh all right let's prompt uh yeah

1487
01:01:29,630 --> 01:01:28,020
what was it again we brought him on here

1488
01:01:33,410 --> 01:01:29,640
for it right

1489
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:33,420
kind of about the um the IG complaint uh

1490
01:01:38,510 --> 01:01:37,200
uh um Gary Reed not Harry Reid um what

1491
01:01:40,250 --> 01:01:38,520
his position actually is what happened

1492
01:01:45,349 --> 01:01:40,260
with him I feel like you knew something

1493
01:01:51,170 --> 01:01:47,930
um I hadn't did a foyer request uh

1494
01:01:53,690 --> 01:01:51,180
trying to uh obtain the the IG report uh

1495
01:01:57,170 --> 01:01:53,700
an unredacted copy of it after Green

1496
01:01:58,849 --> 01:01:57,180
Street uh released his redacted copy

1497
01:02:01,250 --> 01:01:58,859
um and I got a pretty quick response

1498
01:02:04,130 --> 01:02:01,260
back uh denying that and they had cited

1499
01:02:07,010 --> 01:02:04,140
essentially uh the exemption was due to

1500
01:02:09,049 --> 01:02:07,020
uh ongoing investigation and that didn't

1501
01:02:12,049 --> 01:02:09,059
necessarily mean that that

1502
01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:12,059
uh IG was still under investigation or

1503
01:02:15,950 --> 01:02:14,640
that it was even related uh to that

1504
01:02:18,349 --> 01:02:15,960
um and they were very

1505
01:02:20,089 --> 01:02:18,359
um specific I forget the exact wording

1506
01:02:22,250 --> 01:02:20,099
but they were specific to say that you

1507
01:02:23,809 --> 01:02:22,260
know this could be a I mean a whole

1508
01:02:25,130 --> 01:02:23,819
range of Investigations it doesn't have

1509
01:02:27,170 --> 01:02:25,140
to mean something by the federal

1510
01:02:29,109 --> 01:02:27,180
government or by uh

1511
01:02:31,910 --> 01:02:29,119
um having to do with uh even that

1512
01:02:34,730 --> 01:02:31,920
Elizondo IG report

1513
01:02:37,010 --> 01:02:34,740
um which uh I again is just very

1514
01:02:39,049 --> 01:02:37,020
interesting and I you know

1515
01:02:40,370 --> 01:02:39,059
um I just would like to know even

1516
01:02:42,890 --> 01:02:40,380
um and you know Stephen Green Street

1517
01:02:45,170 --> 01:02:42,900
hasn't really clarified unfortunately

1518
01:02:47,690 --> 01:02:45,180
um but when he released uh the IG report

1519
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:47,700
you know really just in the uh liner

1520
01:02:52,549 --> 01:02:50,400
notes of his YouTube video

1521
01:02:55,250 --> 01:02:52,559
um you know which was very cool uh but

1522
01:02:58,130 --> 01:02:55,260
he had redacted it and you know I'd like

1523
01:02:59,750 --> 01:02:58,140
to know even just the reactions

1524
01:03:02,569 --> 01:02:59,760
um what constituted them and who made

1525
01:03:05,210 --> 01:03:02,579
the decisions was it um was it directed

1526
01:03:07,370 --> 01:03:05,220
by uh you know the New York Post uh did

1527
01:03:09,710 --> 01:03:07,380
we did uh Green Street kind of do it on

1528
01:03:11,390 --> 01:03:09,720
his own was it directed by um whoever he

1529
01:03:12,289 --> 01:03:11,400
got the documents from or by the

1530
01:03:14,569 --> 01:03:12,299
government

1531
01:03:16,789 --> 01:03:14,579
um just you know a lot of valid

1532
01:03:17,690 --> 01:03:16,799
questions I think still remain

1533
01:03:19,970 --> 01:03:17,700
um

1534
01:03:21,230 --> 01:03:19,980
but it's interesting I guess that it you

1535
01:03:23,510 --> 01:03:21,240
know it's still out there and still we

1536
01:03:24,950 --> 01:03:23,520
can't get an unredacted copy one of the

1537
01:03:26,750 --> 01:03:24,960
things that I thought was most uh

1538
01:03:29,510 --> 01:03:26,760
interesting about uh the Gary Reed

1539
01:03:31,789 --> 01:03:29,520
situation that you were talking about uh

1540
01:03:34,609 --> 01:03:31,799
is that you know that in April of this

1541
01:03:36,829 --> 01:03:34,619
year when uh that story broke

1542
01:03:39,289 --> 01:03:36,839
um you know it was very big and uh right

1543
01:03:42,410 --> 01:03:39,299
away anybody who brought any type of

1544
01:03:45,289 --> 01:03:42,420
scrutiny up or uh questioned uh the

1545
01:03:47,750 --> 01:03:45,299
article uh stating that he was fired

1546
01:03:49,309 --> 01:03:47,760
from his responsibilities within the U.S

1547
01:03:51,890 --> 01:03:49,319
government and you know that's the quote

1548
01:03:53,450 --> 01:03:51,900
right there right anybody that that

1549
01:03:55,730 --> 01:03:53,460
questioned that because this was based

1550
01:03:58,549 --> 01:03:55,740
upon just Anonymous sources uh was

1551
01:04:01,670 --> 01:03:58,559
quickly rebuffed um and uh people very

1552
01:04:04,370 --> 01:04:01,680
quickly went to get uh comments uh from

1553
01:04:06,530 --> 01:04:04,380
uh official spokespeople at the U.S

1554
01:04:08,930 --> 01:04:06,540
government and at the Pentagon uh and

1555
01:04:10,609 --> 01:04:08,940
they were not uh lining up with what we

1556
01:04:12,650 --> 01:04:10,619
were being told by say you know Tim

1557
01:04:15,349 --> 01:04:12,660
McMillan it's a debrief or uh Chris

1558
01:04:17,030 --> 01:04:15,359
sharp over collaboration times uh and it

1559
01:04:19,490 --> 01:04:17,040
turned out that Gary Reed was not fired

1560
01:04:21,710 --> 01:04:19,500
he was you know trying transferred to a

1561
01:04:23,690 --> 01:04:21,720
different department and in fact he was

1562
01:04:26,390 --> 01:04:23,700
transferred after that article had come

1563
01:04:27,950 --> 01:04:26,400
out it turns out so there's just a lot

1564
01:04:28,730 --> 01:04:27,960
of questions that remain with that as

1565
01:04:31,430 --> 01:04:28,740
well

1566
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:31,440
um you know and really what um what

1567
01:04:36,530 --> 01:04:33,839
impact the article may have played in

1568
01:04:38,030 --> 01:04:36,540
what ended up uh happening even

1569
01:04:40,190 --> 01:04:38,040
um

1570
01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:40,200
but uh yeah thanks uh thanks for letting

1571
01:04:45,049 --> 01:04:42,480
me say my peace yeah thanks for coming

1572
01:04:46,490 --> 01:04:45,059
on and clarifying a bit yeah Steve I

1573
01:04:48,230 --> 01:04:46,500
always really appreciate your

1574
01:04:51,170 --> 01:04:48,240
perspective you know you engage with the

1575
01:04:54,289 --> 01:04:51,180
subject it's with uh genuine interest

1576
01:04:57,829 --> 01:04:54,299
you also maintain a critical eye

1577
01:04:59,990 --> 01:04:57,839
um Everybody Steve long uh UAP or sap on

1578
01:05:01,010 --> 01:05:00,000
Twitter I heavily recommend following

1579
01:05:02,569 --> 01:05:01,020
him

1580
01:05:04,970 --> 01:05:02,579
absolutely

1581
01:05:07,069 --> 01:05:04,980
yes Steve thank you so much

1582
01:05:09,589 --> 01:05:07,079
of course see you friend

1583
01:05:11,390 --> 01:05:09,599
and then we also have B in the chat um

1584
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:11,400
or in the green room so

1585
01:05:18,650 --> 01:05:14,880
um B her and I have chatted um a whole

1586
01:05:19,789 --> 01:05:18,660
lot uh on Discord whoops B I'm so I'm I

1587
01:05:21,770 --> 01:05:19,799
hit the wrong button I think I

1588
01:05:23,210 --> 01:05:21,780
accidentally kicked her out um well it

1589
01:05:25,430 --> 01:05:23,220
would be if you want to come jump back

1590
01:05:27,170 --> 01:05:25,440
on I'll get you added to the stream

1591
01:05:29,109 --> 01:05:27,180
um I saw it you were typing particularly

1592
01:05:31,309 --> 01:05:29,119
about sort of

1593
01:05:33,470 --> 01:05:31,319
experiences throughout history and how

1594
01:05:34,910 --> 01:05:33,480
they show up in the Bible

1595
01:05:36,410 --> 01:05:34,920
um and I think you know that would be

1596
01:05:38,329 --> 01:05:36,420
something that all of us would love to

1597
01:05:40,430 --> 01:05:38,339
chat about oh cool all right she was

1598
01:05:43,309 --> 01:05:40,440
trying to gun okay let me get her out to

1599
01:05:45,470 --> 01:05:43,319
the stream here we go hey B how are you

1600
01:05:47,150 --> 01:05:45,480
all right guys good evening how are you

1601
01:05:48,470 --> 01:05:47,160
guys how's the new year treating you I

1602
01:05:50,569 --> 01:05:48,480
know I haven't seen you since at least

1603
01:05:52,370 --> 01:05:50,579
last year I know you and I haven't

1604
01:05:53,630 --> 01:05:52,380
talked in a few weeks and I was gonna

1605
01:05:55,549 --> 01:05:53,640
say I don't even know if you've ever

1606
01:05:59,630 --> 01:05:55,559
watched have you have you done one of

1607
01:06:01,730 --> 01:05:59,640
our streams before no no I I'm I I

1608
01:06:05,450 --> 01:06:01,740
generally just make little funny

1609
01:06:08,210 --> 01:06:05,460
comments in the section sometimes

1610
01:06:09,049 --> 01:06:08,220
cool I love someone to talk that you

1611
01:06:10,970 --> 01:06:09,059
guys have

1612
01:06:13,069 --> 01:06:10,980
this is some of the talks that you guys

1613
01:06:15,650 --> 01:06:13,079
have going and and and the different

1614
01:06:20,450 --> 01:06:15,660
ways that we're brushing back into the

1615
01:06:22,970 --> 01:06:20,460
way that people's belief is affecting

1616
01:06:26,510 --> 01:06:22,980
um both the understanding and the

1617
01:06:29,750 --> 01:06:26,520
research in into the phenomena and I

1618
01:06:32,690 --> 01:06:29,760
would like to propose I now as a total

1619
01:06:34,370 --> 01:06:32,700
Layman like like you guys blow my mind

1620
01:06:36,890 --> 01:06:34,380
on how smart you guys are I can't keep

1621
01:06:39,470 --> 01:06:36,900
up like some of the stuff I'm like we're

1622
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:39,480
all also Layman don't worry we're just

1623
01:06:44,510 --> 01:06:40,799
playing we just play nerds on the

1624
01:06:46,549 --> 01:06:44,520
internet yeah so like but I I try to

1625
01:06:48,529 --> 01:06:46,559
find the actual studies and the language

1626
01:06:51,010 --> 01:06:48,539
to be able to bridge The Divide right

1627
01:06:54,410 --> 01:06:51,020
and and I'm finding all this stuff on on

1628
01:06:57,230 --> 01:06:54,420
biophotonic reactionary to The Observer

1629
01:06:59,990 --> 01:06:57,240
belief effect uh and and being

1630
01:07:03,109 --> 01:07:00,000
photographed on the photomic on the

1631
01:07:06,890 --> 01:07:03,119
subatomic scales uh carrying this qualia

1632
01:07:09,710 --> 01:07:06,900
and morphing to the observer's belief I

1633
01:07:12,589 --> 01:07:09,720
I feel like there's going to be some of

1634
01:07:14,630 --> 01:07:12,599
that is going to be applicable to some

1635
01:07:17,569 --> 01:07:14,640
of these experiences not all of them buy

1636
01:07:20,270 --> 01:07:17,579
a long shot but like I I don't know it

1637
01:07:22,309 --> 01:07:20,280
it almost feels like some of the stuff

1638
01:07:23,809 --> 01:07:22,319
that people are even getting in the ce5

1639
01:07:26,150 --> 01:07:23,819
and the high stuff right because you

1640
01:07:29,089 --> 01:07:26,160
have all of these different factions and

1641
01:07:31,190 --> 01:07:29,099
they're all getting stuff on film that

1642
01:07:33,890 --> 01:07:31,200
all look alike just like the Bledsoe

1643
01:07:35,750 --> 01:07:33,900
stuff right and and but you have the

1644
01:07:37,130 --> 01:07:35,760
belief is what separates it and that's

1645
01:07:38,630 --> 01:07:37,140
the only thing that separates it and

1646
01:07:41,029 --> 01:07:38,640
it's only in the mind of the holder

1647
01:07:43,010 --> 01:07:41,039
because again it all resembles each

1648
01:07:45,529 --> 01:07:43,020
other on the film

1649
01:07:48,410 --> 01:07:45,539
um but you know you got Greer's team

1650
01:07:51,289 --> 01:07:48,420
that think they're seeing syrians and uh

1651
01:07:53,390 --> 01:07:51,299
Isa and Washington think certain lyrians

1652
01:07:55,430 --> 01:07:53,400
and uh the people's disclosure movement

1653
01:08:00,190 --> 01:07:55,440
I think it's Pleiadians and octurians

1654
01:08:02,809 --> 01:08:00,200
and there's angels and but it feels like

1655
01:08:04,849 --> 01:08:02,819
belief is going to play a much bigger

1656
01:08:06,589 --> 01:08:04,859
role in this than than what we believe

1657
01:08:07,970 --> 01:08:06,599
and I just wanted to get your guys's

1658
01:08:11,690 --> 01:08:07,980
opinions on that

1659
01:08:13,670 --> 01:08:11,700
yeah so first of all like bu and I have

1660
01:08:15,529 --> 01:08:13,680
had some great conversations on this I

1661
01:08:17,030 --> 01:08:15,539
mean you've been so generous in Sharing

1662
01:08:18,169 --> 01:08:17,040
I think it was

1663
01:08:20,510 --> 01:08:18,179
um

1664
01:08:22,970 --> 01:08:20,520
Dr Joseph Burks

1665
01:08:24,530 --> 01:08:22,980
uh blog and papers

1666
01:08:26,329 --> 01:08:24,540
um it and you're you're touching on

1667
01:08:28,430 --> 01:08:26,339
something that I bring up pretty

1668
01:08:31,910 --> 01:08:28,440
frequently which is this kind of the

1669
01:08:34,370 --> 01:08:31,920
universality of these experiences and

1670
01:08:37,550 --> 01:08:34,380
um like you said how people's belief

1671
01:08:38,990 --> 01:08:37,560
systems frame and affect their

1672
01:08:40,669 --> 01:08:39,000
interpretation or sense making

1673
01:08:42,650 --> 01:08:40,679
associated with them

1674
01:08:44,930 --> 01:08:42,660
um I I certainly don't want to speak for

1675
01:08:48,050 --> 01:08:44,940
you but I'm always struck

1676
01:08:50,209 --> 01:08:48,060
um by how similar these experiences are

1677
01:08:52,789 --> 01:08:50,219
across different cultures and histories

1678
01:08:55,189 --> 01:08:52,799
and religions and Frameworks

1679
01:08:57,289 --> 01:08:55,199
um but it feels like different factions

1680
01:08:59,410 --> 01:08:57,299
or groups quote unquote almost talk past

1681
01:09:01,789 --> 01:08:59,420
one another because they can be rigidly

1682
01:09:03,530 --> 01:09:01,799
within the framework of their particular

1683
01:09:05,150 --> 01:09:03,540
discipline

1684
01:09:06,289 --> 01:09:05,160
um and and I do think at the heart of

1685
01:09:08,150 --> 01:09:06,299
all of this

1686
01:09:10,669 --> 01:09:08,160
um is a deeply interdisciplinary and

1687
01:09:12,289 --> 01:09:10,679
cross-disciplinary approach it's not

1688
01:09:14,809 --> 01:09:12,299
going to be limited to just one

1689
01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:14,819
particular field or one particular like

1690
01:09:23,050 --> 01:09:19,370
agreed

1691
01:09:27,289 --> 01:09:25,970
and Moses and Ezekiel we're all doing

1692
01:09:28,570 --> 01:09:27,299
the same thing we're gonna be wrong

1693
01:09:31,550 --> 01:09:28,580
right

1694
01:09:33,470 --> 01:09:31,560
they were all doing hikes but going back

1695
01:09:36,650 --> 01:09:33,480
into the original descriptions of both

1696
01:09:39,110 --> 01:09:36,660
like the Ezekiel will and and Shiva

1697
01:09:42,229 --> 01:09:39,120
their original transcriptions and

1698
01:09:45,050 --> 01:09:42,239
descriptions are much more similar than

1699
01:09:46,789 --> 01:09:45,060
than the translated ones are right and

1700
01:09:48,349 --> 01:09:46,799
it feels like it's just the same thing

1701
01:09:51,349 --> 01:09:48,359
the world over just translated

1702
01:09:52,970 --> 01:09:51,359
differently in the eyes of the beholder

1703
01:09:55,250 --> 01:09:52,980
right I mean this is kind of the same

1704
01:09:57,110 --> 01:09:55,260
way cultures work too right we all have

1705
01:09:58,430 --> 01:09:57,120
kind of that cultural filter that we see

1706
01:10:00,530 --> 01:09:58,440
things through and people on the other

1707
01:10:03,470 --> 01:10:00,540
side of other parts of the world see it

1708
01:10:05,450 --> 01:10:03,480
through a different uh kind of lens also

1709
01:10:06,290 --> 01:10:05,460
when you talk about Ezekiel and the

1710
01:10:07,150 --> 01:10:06,300
wheel

1711
01:10:09,590 --> 01:10:07,160
um

1712
01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:09,600
growing up I wasn't very religious so I

1713
01:10:17,090 --> 01:10:11,120
know

1714
01:10:19,370 --> 01:10:17,100
only a little bit was was that story

1715
01:10:21,709 --> 01:10:19,380
um reporting a sighting or is that more

1716
01:10:26,229 --> 01:10:21,719
of a um was that a vision or was that

1717
01:10:28,370 --> 01:10:26,239
just more of a um a text to kind of

1718
01:10:31,610 --> 01:10:28,380
communicate something communicate a

1719
01:10:33,590 --> 01:10:31,620
concept or or was it a vision or a dream

1720
01:10:37,250 --> 01:10:33,600
you know what are the specifics of the

1721
01:10:39,229 --> 01:10:37,260
uh ezekiel's wheel story do you know

1722
01:10:42,350 --> 01:10:39,239
I mean I'm of course not a scholar

1723
01:10:44,570 --> 01:10:42,360
either but in the descriptions and and

1724
01:10:48,290 --> 01:10:44,580
the translations that that I've read it

1725
01:10:50,270 --> 01:10:48,300
was a real event scene and in the in the

1726
01:10:52,669 --> 01:10:50,280
measurements were an extra step of

1727
01:10:54,890 --> 01:10:52,679
validity in in my mind but then again I

1728
01:10:56,510 --> 01:10:54,900
don't know I haven't studied to see if

1729
01:10:58,010 --> 01:10:56,520
that was inserted later by another

1730
01:10:59,870 --> 01:10:58,020
scribe

1731
01:11:01,370 --> 01:10:59,880
um because we have cognitive dissonance

1732
01:11:03,830 --> 01:11:01,380
amongst these scribes throughout the

1733
01:11:06,410 --> 01:11:03,840
generations re-iterating the

1734
01:11:09,950 --> 01:11:06,420
translations as well and we we do have a

1735
01:11:11,930 --> 01:11:09,960
historical proof of that happening too

1736
01:11:13,910 --> 01:11:11,940
um it's yeah it's really interesting

1737
01:11:15,830 --> 01:11:13,920
that like humans from the beginning of

1738
01:11:17,450 --> 01:11:15,840
time have been seeing things in this guy

1739
01:11:18,290 --> 01:11:17,460
that they don't know and they do kind of

1740
01:11:21,470 --> 01:11:18,300
just

1741
01:11:23,870 --> 01:11:21,480
fit their their kind of cultural view on

1742
01:11:26,810 --> 01:11:23,880
top of it to explain it since we're all

1743
01:11:28,910 --> 01:11:26,820
I think kind of wired to want instant

1744
01:11:30,649 --> 01:11:28,920
gratification and answers and stuff and

1745
01:11:32,270 --> 01:11:30,659
you know that's why we like kind of

1746
01:11:33,590 --> 01:11:32,280
automatically seek out authorities and

1747
01:11:35,450 --> 01:11:33,600
kind of create authorities where there

1748
01:11:37,490 --> 01:11:35,460
are none kind of like what we do in the

1749
01:11:38,209 --> 01:11:37,500
UFO field now

1750
01:11:39,950 --> 01:11:38,219
um

1751
01:11:42,350 --> 01:11:39,960
so yeah I mean I mean that kind of makes

1752
01:11:45,410 --> 01:11:42,360
sense if that was like an actual event

1753
01:11:47,390 --> 01:11:45,420
and not not more of a um

1754
01:11:48,850 --> 01:11:47,400
more of a like a parable or anything

1755
01:11:51,050 --> 01:11:48,860
like that

1756
01:11:53,630 --> 01:11:51,060
there was also another paper I found

1757
01:11:56,149 --> 01:11:53,640
that Thomas Bearden did in 1979 and the

1758
01:11:57,770 --> 01:11:56,159
only reason I found it it was it was

1759
01:11:59,270 --> 01:11:57,780
recommended reading by the U.S Navy

1760
01:12:01,669 --> 01:11:59,280
military

1761
01:12:03,410 --> 01:12:01,679
um actual Government website and and I

1762
01:12:05,149 --> 01:12:03,420
I've got it actually linked on on my

1763
01:12:06,590 --> 01:12:05,159
Twitter too and I'll I'll relocity to

1764
01:12:08,209 --> 01:12:06,600
re-share it too

1765
01:12:10,070 --> 01:12:08,219
um but even back then they were talking

1766
01:12:11,630 --> 01:12:10,080
about the physical manifestation of

1767
01:12:13,729 --> 01:12:11,640
topless

1768
01:12:17,330 --> 01:12:13,739
um based upon a large enough people got

1769
01:12:20,990 --> 01:12:17,340
together with belief and and possible

1770
01:12:23,209 --> 01:12:21,000
trauma to and to instigate the the thing

1771
01:12:25,430 --> 01:12:23,219
right and and then we see him back up

1772
01:12:27,770 --> 01:12:25,440
all these battles and all these these

1773
01:12:31,250 --> 01:12:27,780
flames of Shields and shields of flame

1774
01:12:32,990 --> 01:12:31,260
and uh do you know all of it even the

1775
01:12:34,910 --> 01:12:33,000
Foo Fighters the Foo Fighters me could

1776
01:12:37,250 --> 01:12:34,920
have been just the the air Pilots

1777
01:12:38,870 --> 01:12:37,260
praying for Angels you know and then

1778
01:12:41,330 --> 01:12:38,880
that being that manifestation for them

1779
01:12:44,030 --> 01:12:41,340
you know I don't know you know what this

1780
01:12:46,189 --> 01:12:44,040
reminds me of is that that story about a

1781
01:12:49,209 --> 01:12:46,199
tour of the Hun and we Leo the second

1782
01:12:52,910 --> 01:12:49,219
and how Attila the Hun turned back

1783
01:12:54,890 --> 01:12:52,920
because he saw Peter and Paul with

1784
01:12:57,350 --> 01:12:54,900
flaming swords or something in the sky

1785
01:12:59,510 --> 01:12:57,360
and didn't proceed with the battle you

1786
01:13:01,250 --> 01:12:59,520
know like I whenever I I think about

1787
01:13:04,130 --> 01:13:01,260
these things I keep falling back to what

1788
01:13:07,070 --> 01:13:04,140
Terence McKenna said about sort of

1789
01:13:09,110 --> 01:13:07,080
um you like existing in a complex system

1790
01:13:12,350 --> 01:13:09,120
with different attractors that sort of

1791
01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:12,360
compel human the human trajectory in

1792
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:14,400
particular directions and I always think

1793
01:13:20,870 --> 01:13:16,320
of that event right or these kind of

1794
01:13:23,689 --> 01:13:20,880
anomalous events in terms of helping to

1795
01:13:26,689 --> 01:13:23,699
shape or refactor the human approach to

1796
01:13:31,330 --> 01:13:26,699
different things and also that exists

1797
01:13:33,530 --> 01:13:31,340
sometimes like this story about Leo II

1798
01:13:35,209 --> 01:13:33,540
in ways that

1799
01:13:36,890 --> 01:13:35,219
we currently now see I mean it's

1800
01:13:38,450 --> 01:13:36,900
effectively an anomalous thing that

1801
01:13:40,430 --> 01:13:38,460
deeply affected the trajectory of

1802
01:13:42,970 --> 01:13:40,440
History like we don't really know what

1803
01:13:46,370 --> 01:13:42,980
was seen or what actually happened

1804
01:13:50,510 --> 01:13:46,380
other than it prevented an enormous

1805
01:13:52,010 --> 01:13:50,520
battle from occurring so I do think

1806
01:13:53,450 --> 01:13:52,020
um and I like the I like that you

1807
01:13:55,729 --> 01:13:53,460
brought up topaz like I think of

1808
01:13:58,370 --> 01:13:55,739
agrigors as well like this sort of

1809
01:14:00,169 --> 01:13:58,380
Community Spirits or forces or energies

1810
01:14:02,630 --> 01:14:00,179
that arise when you're in a group

1811
01:14:03,290 --> 01:14:02,640
practicing in a particular way

1812
01:14:06,590 --> 01:14:03,300
um

1813
01:14:08,209 --> 01:14:06,600
and and just as a a brief aside like I

1814
01:14:09,890 --> 01:14:08,219
spent um

1815
01:14:13,010 --> 01:14:09,900
from Christmas through New Year is that

1816
01:14:14,930 --> 01:14:13,020
a Zen monastic Retreat and I can tell

1817
01:14:17,149 --> 01:14:14,940
you very categorically that the energy

1818
01:14:19,550 --> 01:14:17,159
that you experience or sort of the

1819
01:14:21,350 --> 01:14:19,560
experience of deep meditation in a

1820
01:14:23,990 --> 01:14:21,360
intense group setting is very very

1821
01:14:25,970 --> 01:14:24,000
different than when it's just you

1822
01:14:27,470 --> 01:14:25,980
um and I kept thinking of topos and

1823
01:14:28,729 --> 01:14:27,480
eager girls while I was there because I

1824
01:14:30,709 --> 01:14:28,739
was thinking wow there's this whole

1825
01:14:33,649 --> 01:14:30,719
group of all of us concentrating very

1826
01:14:36,350 --> 01:14:33,659
very hard on one very specific thing for

1827
01:14:37,130 --> 01:14:36,360
a sustained period and how much of I

1828
01:14:41,990 --> 01:14:37,140
guess

1829
01:14:43,970 --> 01:14:42,000
spiritual or internal practice makes use

1830
01:14:45,770 --> 01:14:43,980
of these ideas

1831
01:14:49,130 --> 01:14:45,780
what what's the difference between a

1832
01:14:51,169 --> 01:14:49,140
tall a tall plan and a Gregor and I I

1833
01:14:53,810 --> 01:14:51,179
kind of thought the factors were kind of

1834
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:53,820
like a misappropriated understanding

1835
01:14:58,370 --> 01:14:56,400
yeah topos are from like uh I think it's

1836
01:15:00,890 --> 01:14:58,380
like a Tibetan occultist

1837
01:15:02,930 --> 01:15:00,900
thing um I don't think it's specifically

1838
01:15:05,270 --> 01:15:02,940
yoked to Buddhism but it's this idea

1839
01:15:07,070 --> 01:15:05,280
that you can basically through the mind

1840
01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:07,080
and through dedicated concentration

1841
01:15:14,810 --> 01:15:12,080
practices manifest like a physical other

1842
01:15:18,350 --> 01:15:14,820
so would you say that like the the kind

1843
01:15:20,090 --> 01:15:18,360
of UFO schema or folklore is one or is

1844
01:15:21,830 --> 01:15:20,100
it does it have to be something like

1845
01:15:23,330 --> 01:15:21,840
completely physical and real

1846
01:15:25,070 --> 01:15:23,340
no it doesn't have to be physically

1847
01:15:26,990 --> 01:15:25,080
unreal it can be just like a community

1848
01:15:28,729 --> 01:15:27,000
spirit it's like an egregor in that

1849
01:15:30,470 --> 01:15:28,739
sense it doesn't have to be

1850
01:15:33,169 --> 01:15:30,480
um material

1851
01:15:35,750 --> 01:15:33,179
um it just has to be kind of this

1852
01:15:37,310 --> 01:15:35,760
almost like a community of spirit that

1853
01:15:38,990 --> 01:15:37,320
arises from

1854
01:15:41,030 --> 01:15:39,000
um a group of people or a social

1855
01:15:42,890 --> 01:15:41,040
Community what about things like

1856
01:15:45,470 --> 01:15:42,900
superstitions and stuff these kind of

1857
01:15:47,149 --> 01:15:45,480
cultural habits that kind of our

1858
01:15:50,390 --> 01:15:47,159
subconscious and go unspoken but get

1859
01:15:52,550 --> 01:15:50,400
picked up in cultures and communities

1860
01:15:54,470 --> 01:15:52,560
um would you consider that one or am I

1861
01:15:55,250 --> 01:15:54,480
still being well to

1862
01:15:57,950 --> 01:15:55,260
um

1863
01:15:59,750 --> 01:15:57,960
nebula you know that's no no you're not

1864
01:16:01,550 --> 01:15:59,760
being nebulous I don't know I don't

1865
01:16:03,530 --> 01:16:01,560
we're reaching the edge of my knowledge

1866
01:16:06,169 --> 01:16:03,540
I don't feel qualified enough to make

1867
01:16:08,030 --> 01:16:06,179
that comparison but I understand why

1868
01:16:09,890 --> 01:16:08,040
you're why you're asking that okay

1869
01:16:11,390 --> 01:16:09,900
because they have kind of like a similar

1870
01:16:14,149 --> 01:16:11,400
Vibe

1871
01:16:16,370 --> 01:16:14,159
um I I think that the whole UFO kind of

1872
01:16:18,169 --> 01:16:16,380
narrative has a similar Vive to or vibe

1873
01:16:19,669 --> 01:16:18,179
to that too you know what I mean we've

1874
01:16:22,070 --> 01:16:19,679
all grown up

1875
01:16:24,110 --> 01:16:22,080
our whole lives thinking or at least

1876
01:16:25,370 --> 01:16:24,120
here in the States you know you see a

1877
01:16:27,050 --> 01:16:25,380
weird light in the sky oh I know what

1878
01:16:29,149 --> 01:16:27,060
that is that's a that's a flying saucer

1879
01:16:31,130 --> 01:16:29,159
that's a a UFO you know a kind of

1880
01:16:33,410 --> 01:16:31,140
interchangeable words at that point and

1881
01:16:36,470 --> 01:16:33,420
we have kind of like a built-in story

1882
01:16:38,209 --> 01:16:36,480
about them all growing up you know

1883
01:16:39,830 --> 01:16:38,219
they're aliens visiting they're they're

1884
01:16:41,750 --> 01:16:39,840
coming to collect samples and do

1885
01:16:43,370 --> 01:16:41,760
scientific research or like genetic

1886
01:16:45,709 --> 01:16:43,380
experiments on us and things like that

1887
01:16:47,870 --> 01:16:45,719
like these are all kind of

1888
01:16:50,209 --> 01:16:47,880
no one taught me that is what I'm saying

1889
01:16:53,270 --> 01:16:50,219
I just kind of picked it up by living

1890
01:16:57,530 --> 01:16:53,280
here and just kind of being in public so

1891
01:16:59,990 --> 01:16:57,540
I wonder if you could then say that the

1892
01:17:04,430 --> 01:17:00,000
whole UFO narrative as Pop Culture knows

1893
01:17:06,470 --> 01:17:04,440
it is a tulpa or a Gregor

1894
01:17:09,050 --> 01:17:06,480
yeah and I I would I would use the word

1895
01:17:11,870 --> 01:17:09,060
to describe it yeah

1896
01:17:14,810 --> 01:17:11,880
what B was touching on there is uh very

1897
01:17:17,330 --> 01:17:14,820
significant in terms of there being an

1898
01:17:19,430 --> 01:17:17,340
important distinction between the kinds

1899
01:17:22,669 --> 01:17:19,440
of phenomena we're talking about some of

1900
01:17:25,669 --> 01:17:22,679
the phenomena are undoubtedly external

1901
01:17:27,709 --> 01:17:25,679
physical phenomena occurring like in

1902
01:17:30,649 --> 01:17:27,719
reality there are other phenomena

1903
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:30,659
occurring like within the mind and

1904
01:17:35,689 --> 01:17:32,640
they're all sort of put together uh

1905
01:17:38,209 --> 01:17:35,699
these through the lenses so historically

1906
01:17:40,490 --> 01:17:38,219
if you saw and I talked about this yeah

1907
01:17:43,970 --> 01:17:40,500
like previous episode I think if you see

1908
01:17:47,090 --> 01:17:43,980
a big collection of luminous objects

1909
01:17:50,630 --> 01:17:47,100
traveling in unison across the sky in a

1910
01:17:53,510 --> 01:17:50,640
world where Fireball swarms do not exist

1911
01:17:55,430 --> 01:17:53,520
you and you talk to your friends and

1912
01:17:58,130 --> 01:17:55,440
luminous beings are from the celestial

1913
01:17:59,870 --> 01:17:58,140
plane they are Divine because you know

1914
01:18:02,810 --> 01:17:59,880
they're Divine because they are luminous

1915
01:18:04,610 --> 01:18:02,820
beings right so they're Angels so is

1916
01:18:07,490 --> 01:18:04,620
that a physical are angels physical a

1917
01:18:09,830 --> 01:18:07,500
phenomenon or not I mean if the person

1918
01:18:12,410 --> 01:18:09,840
looking at a fireball swarms that those

1919
01:18:14,270 --> 01:18:12,420
are angels is that physical or not it is

1920
01:18:16,010 --> 01:18:14,280
in a sense in another sense they're

1921
01:18:19,010 --> 01:18:16,020
interpreting it through a specific lens

1922
01:18:21,649 --> 01:18:19,020
it's not yeah uh well and also just

1923
01:18:24,649 --> 01:18:21,659
think of how different like the original

1924
01:18:27,050 --> 01:18:24,659
Source Recollections of angels are for

1925
01:18:29,570 --> 01:18:27,060
versus what the kind kind of popular

1926
01:18:32,209 --> 01:18:29,580
imagination angels are right like angels

1927
01:18:35,149 --> 01:18:32,219
are kind of flattened into these very

1928
01:18:36,830 --> 01:18:35,159
pleasant benevolent creatures uh

1929
01:18:38,810 --> 01:18:36,840
sometimes they're cherubs so their baby

1930
01:18:41,270 --> 01:18:38,820
isn't cute but like if you go back to

1931
01:18:42,709 --> 01:18:41,280
the Testaments like they're terrifying

1932
01:18:45,890 --> 01:18:42,719
they have like

1933
01:18:47,810 --> 01:18:45,900
seven sets of wings and 13 eyes and

1934
01:18:49,790 --> 01:18:47,820
they're awesome and tremendous and like

1935
01:18:51,770 --> 01:18:49,800
the original Old Testament senses of

1936
01:18:52,910 --> 01:18:51,780
those words uh you've been reading as

1937
01:18:53,990 --> 01:18:52,920
you're Ezekiel

1938
01:18:56,570 --> 01:18:54,000
yes

1939
01:18:58,550 --> 01:18:56,580
I've been communing with the ineffable

1940
01:18:59,930 --> 01:18:58,560
for a lot of hours in the last couple

1941
01:19:02,330 --> 01:18:59,940
weeks

1942
01:19:03,470 --> 01:19:02,340
um so yeah so B thank you so much for

1943
01:19:04,850 --> 01:19:03,480
dropping in

1944
01:19:06,770 --> 01:19:04,860
um thanks is there anything you want to

1945
01:19:10,850 --> 01:19:06,780
plug before uh

1946
01:19:13,970 --> 01:19:10,860
yeah definitely be Not Afraid right yeah

1947
01:19:18,770 --> 01:19:13,980
yeah I do I do have a couple of videos

1948
01:19:22,729 --> 01:19:18,780
of of uh things that I think could

1949
01:19:24,229 --> 01:19:22,739
be a per chance by chance similarity of

1950
01:19:26,270 --> 01:19:24,239
some of the phenomena they're talking

1951
01:19:28,130 --> 01:19:26,280
about but again I mean I'm not saying

1952
01:19:30,110 --> 01:19:28,140
that their interpretation of it is right

1953
01:19:31,850 --> 01:19:30,120
but there's something that's just

1954
01:19:32,990 --> 01:19:31,860
naturally existed here with us here all

1955
01:19:35,689 --> 01:19:33,000
the time right and we just need to

1956
01:19:38,090 --> 01:19:35,699
figure it out but but you guys are great

1957
01:19:40,850 --> 01:19:38,100
and I really appreciate your povato in

1958
01:19:42,770 --> 01:19:40,860
in the figuring it out so salute

1959
01:19:45,430 --> 01:19:42,780
awesome well thank you thank you B take

1960
01:19:48,169 --> 01:19:45,440
care talk to you soon

1961
01:19:50,870 --> 01:19:48,179
I just have a one paragraph on a read

1962
01:19:53,090 --> 01:19:50,880
here if that's a uh that so I just

1963
01:19:55,370 --> 01:19:53,100
wanted to validate what uh B was saying

1964
01:19:57,169 --> 01:19:55,380
there in part uh this is a Goddard

1965
01:19:58,970 --> 01:19:57,179
Institute for space studies astronomer

1966
01:20:00,530 --> 01:19:58,980
Richard stuthers wrote the paper

1967
01:20:02,689 --> 01:20:00,540
unidentified flying objects in classical

1968
01:20:04,669 --> 01:20:02,699
Antiquity that was published in the

1969
01:20:07,669 --> 01:20:04,679
peer-reviewed classical journal in 2007

1970
01:20:10,310 --> 01:20:07,679
and in that he uh presents a uh

1971
01:20:11,990 --> 01:20:10,320
compelling argument that uh what we

1972
01:20:14,030 --> 01:20:12,000
might call UFOs today many

1973
01:20:15,770 --> 01:20:14,040
conventionally explicable phenomena can

1974
01:20:17,930 --> 01:20:15,780
be weeded out leaving a small residue of

1975
01:20:19,550 --> 01:20:17,940
puzzling reports these fall neatly into

1976
01:20:20,930 --> 01:20:19,560
the same categories as modern UFO

1977
01:20:23,689 --> 01:20:20,940
reports suggesting that the UFO

1978
01:20:26,649 --> 01:20:23,699
phenomenon whatever it may be due to has

1979
01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:26,659
not changed much over to Millennia

1980
01:20:33,709 --> 01:20:29,280
interesting yeah I like that

1981
01:20:35,750 --> 01:20:33,719
is there a danger sorry go ahead Leo I

1982
01:20:37,850 --> 01:20:35,760
was just gonna draw attention to Vapor

1983
01:20:39,470 --> 01:20:37,860
missiles comment here about topos and

1984
01:20:41,930 --> 01:20:39,480
irregories are complex and fascinating

1985
01:20:44,450 --> 01:20:41,940
and as I learn more it gets clearer why

1986
01:20:46,250 --> 01:20:44,460
the topic is taboo for our culture

1987
01:20:48,169 --> 01:20:46,260
it seems like one thing I need to look

1988
01:20:49,490 --> 01:20:48,179
at more because I have Baseline

1989
01:20:51,229 --> 01:20:49,500
understanding and I think someone else

1990
01:20:53,149 --> 01:20:51,239
in the I may have been vaporms on the

1991
01:20:55,430 --> 01:20:53,159
comments like I basically know them from

1992
01:20:57,770 --> 01:20:55,440
Twin Peaks and

1993
01:20:58,930 --> 01:20:57,780
um uh some some lore surrounding

1994
01:21:02,689 --> 01:20:58,940
Slenderman

1995
01:21:05,630 --> 01:21:02,699
what were you saying Louise

1996
01:21:08,689 --> 01:21:05,640
oh um something that b was uh saying

1997
01:21:10,850 --> 01:21:08,699
actually made me think um

1998
01:21:13,430 --> 01:21:10,860
you know these ideas that something or

1999
01:21:14,630 --> 01:21:13,440
other has been with us for Millennia

2000
01:21:16,570 --> 01:21:14,640
um

2001
01:21:18,890 --> 01:21:16,580
this is like meant to

2002
01:21:21,350 --> 01:21:18,900
alludes some sort of continuity in human

2003
01:21:23,110 --> 01:21:21,360
culture or Human Society um history that

2004
01:21:25,250 --> 01:21:23,120
there's been some sort of outside

2005
01:21:26,390 --> 01:21:25,260
influence or force or whatever you call

2006
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:26,400
it phenomena

2007
01:21:32,450 --> 01:21:28,800
which has been with us all that time but

2008
01:21:35,510 --> 01:21:32,460
um you know there's a danger of uh back

2009
01:21:38,270 --> 01:21:35,520
projecting from our current motifs and

2010
01:21:42,169 --> 01:21:38,280
frame like technology we think of

2011
01:21:44,330 --> 01:21:42,179
spaceships or UFOs as mechanical things

2012
01:21:46,430 --> 01:21:44,340
um and we sometimes forget that um and

2013
01:21:49,669 --> 01:21:46,440
this is something that Brian senti's has

2014
01:21:51,229 --> 01:21:49,679
also talked about is that um

2015
01:21:52,550 --> 01:21:51,239
we can't just assume that they were

2016
01:21:53,930 --> 01:21:52,560
being literal

2017
01:21:55,390 --> 01:21:53,940
um right they also had their own

2018
01:21:57,770 --> 01:21:55,400
allegorical

2019
01:21:59,930 --> 01:21:57,780
ways of speaking right and we have to be

2020
01:22:02,209 --> 01:21:59,940
sensitive to that as well

2021
01:22:04,189 --> 01:22:02,219
yeah I think uh Vancouver guy was like

2022
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:04,199
slamming on his keyboard in the uh in

2023
01:22:08,630 --> 01:22:07,440
the chat while that's happening yes Jeff

2024
01:22:11,030 --> 01:22:08,640
you're welcome to jump on the stream

2025
01:22:14,689 --> 01:22:11,040
with us

2026
01:22:18,350 --> 01:22:16,130
um the Bible was not a really old

2027
01:22:20,990 --> 01:22:18,360
newspaper as I like to say

2028
01:22:24,169 --> 01:22:21,000
yeah and uh the translation piece is

2029
01:22:27,890 --> 01:22:24,179
very significant too like for example uh

2030
01:22:29,510 --> 01:22:27,900
descriptions in the Icelandic uh books

2031
01:22:31,550 --> 01:22:29,520
about that were written down about their

2032
01:22:33,530 --> 01:22:31,560
old uh religion and they described an

2033
01:22:36,169 --> 01:22:33,540
elves right and there's some controversy

2034
01:22:38,270 --> 01:22:36,179
about how that description is

2035
01:22:41,689 --> 01:22:38,280
more rendered into Modern English

2036
01:22:43,970 --> 01:22:41,699
because the word is uh lee suf that it

2037
01:22:47,510 --> 01:22:43,980
says they stay something more than the

2038
01:22:50,149 --> 01:22:47,520
Sun and then uh so a variety of fjords

2039
01:22:52,610 --> 01:22:50,159
are with that thing are mean shining so

2040
01:22:54,229 --> 01:22:52,620
they Shone brighter than the sun is

2041
01:22:56,030 --> 01:22:54,239
seemingly the actual description that we

2042
01:22:57,590 --> 01:22:56,040
have of what an elf is that's not how

2043
01:22:59,630 --> 01:22:57,600
they're represented anywhere

2044
01:23:00,950 --> 01:22:59,640
interesting and that's literally what

2045
01:23:02,450 --> 01:23:00,960
they call it said they look like like

2046
01:23:05,750 --> 01:23:02,460
the people who believed in them so like

2047
01:23:07,430 --> 01:23:05,760
our perception is totally you know

2048
01:23:09,169 --> 01:23:07,440
removed from the historical reality

2049
01:23:13,010 --> 01:23:09,179
right

2050
01:23:14,750 --> 01:23:13,020
so we have uh Michael Redmond backstage

2051
01:23:16,010 --> 01:23:14,760
um I actually chat with him on Twitter

2052
01:23:18,290 --> 01:23:16,020
so I'm going to bring him onto the

2053
01:23:23,570 --> 01:23:21,169
hey Michael Hello Maybe

2054
01:23:25,250 --> 01:23:23,580
Hi how are you it's so good to see you

2055
01:23:26,390 --> 01:23:25,260
here

2056
01:23:28,850 --> 01:23:26,400
yes

2057
01:23:31,370 --> 01:23:28,860
uh hi guys it's good

2058
01:23:34,370 --> 01:23:31,380
oh my goodness your Fringe Quest whoa

2059
01:23:35,330 --> 01:23:34,380
yeah wow that's incredible this is I

2060
01:23:38,390 --> 01:23:35,340
know it's like you're like a little

2061
01:23:40,070 --> 01:23:38,400
Twitter celebrity for us yeah I've been

2062
01:23:42,830 --> 01:23:40,080
following you for so long you have an

2063
01:23:48,070 --> 01:23:42,840
excellent perspective

2064
01:23:55,010 --> 01:23:50,930
amazing you're um you're on the on the

2065
01:24:00,590 --> 01:23:58,130
thank you I've I've got a lot of

2066
01:24:05,330 --> 01:24:00,600
feedback coming in from various audio

2067
01:24:09,950 --> 01:24:07,850
yeah that's that's what I

2068
01:24:13,370 --> 01:24:09,960
yeah so you'd probably should just mute

2069
01:24:15,709 --> 01:24:13,380
the audio output and then talk because

2070
01:24:17,689 --> 01:24:15,719
close YouTube super confusing having to

2071
01:24:21,530 --> 01:24:17,699
uh navigate between the two oh yeah or

2072
01:24:21,540 --> 01:24:28,490
it's

2073
01:24:34,850 --> 01:24:32,169
amazing having to uh yep

2074
01:24:36,470 --> 01:24:34,860
close YouTube all right let me give this

2075
01:24:37,550 --> 01:24:36,480
a shot

2076
01:24:41,390 --> 01:24:37,560
um

2077
01:24:44,330 --> 01:24:41,400
well as you can see I'm uh Ancient of

2078
01:24:46,550 --> 01:24:44,340
Days and not very

2079
01:24:48,830 --> 01:24:46,560
not very technical

2080
01:24:53,510 --> 01:24:48,840
um I don't know about about closing

2081
01:24:57,229 --> 01:24:55,130
yeah we're having a bit of technical

2082
01:24:59,090 --> 01:24:57,239
issues on this unfortunately I wonder if

2083
01:25:00,530 --> 01:24:59,100
we can try to get that resolved and then

2084
01:25:02,390 --> 01:25:00,540
you can jump back in because I would

2085
01:25:05,870 --> 01:25:02,400
love to hear what you have to say on

2086
01:25:07,370 --> 01:25:05,880
this yeah yeah so just um close the

2087
01:25:10,450 --> 01:25:07,380
YouTube stream where you were watching

2088
01:25:12,770 --> 01:25:10,460
us and then um

2089
01:25:14,510 --> 01:25:12,780
you'll be able to hear us and talk to us

2090
01:25:16,070 --> 01:25:14,520
through the stream yard link that you

2091
01:25:19,010 --> 01:25:16,080
clicked yeah

2092
01:25:21,950 --> 01:25:19,020
oh there we go all right beautiful let's

2093
01:25:25,490 --> 01:25:21,960
listen greetings everybody it's great to

2094
01:25:28,430 --> 01:25:25,500
see you this is kind of like my debut

2095
01:25:30,310 --> 01:25:28,440
um I'm uh I don't really I think I've

2096
01:25:33,590 --> 01:25:30,320
only done one podcast

2097
01:25:36,470 --> 01:25:33,600
uh appearing on only one podcast in the

2098
01:25:40,550 --> 01:25:36,480
last 10 years uh podcast is something I

2099
01:25:43,130 --> 01:25:40,560
tend to avoid but uh I know or I know

2100
01:25:45,110 --> 01:25:43,140
everybody here at least my reputation or

2101
01:25:47,330 --> 01:25:45,120
Twitter and I knew this would be worth

2102
01:25:49,729 --> 01:25:47,340
dropping in to say hello

2103
01:25:52,550 --> 01:25:49,739
thanks yeah lots of fans in the audience

2104
01:25:55,430 --> 01:25:52,560
we have Steve long we have dodo saying

2105
01:25:56,810 --> 01:25:55,440
what's up King that's you Michael you

2106
01:26:00,470 --> 01:25:56,820
have a whole bunch of acolytes here in

2107
01:26:05,930 --> 01:26:02,629
um I don't have a I've been listening

2108
01:26:07,970 --> 01:26:05,940
with interest uh I was able only to get

2109
01:26:10,010 --> 01:26:07,980
into the stream maybe 10-15 minutes ago

2110
01:26:14,090 --> 01:26:10,020
I was busy but I see that we're

2111
01:26:16,910 --> 01:26:14,100
discussing Angels which is uh I am well

2112
01:26:19,189 --> 01:26:16,920
acquainted with a uh Lutheran Minister

2113
01:26:21,590 --> 01:26:19,199
by the name of Ray boshay I don't know

2114
01:26:22,729 --> 01:26:21,600
if that is a name that's familiar to any

2115
01:26:24,709 --> 01:26:22,739
of you

2116
01:26:26,990 --> 01:26:24,719
um he is a big paranormal scholar and

2117
01:26:29,209 --> 01:26:27,000
has all kinds of published papers but

2118
01:26:32,590 --> 01:26:29,219
it's interesting to talk to Ray because

2119
01:26:35,990 --> 01:26:32,600
Rey is a conservative Orthodox Christian

2120
01:26:38,570 --> 01:26:36,000
who is of the school that thinks that

2121
01:26:40,270 --> 01:26:38,580
the entire UFO phenomenon is due to dark

2122
01:26:43,490 --> 01:26:40,280
Powers

2123
01:26:46,189 --> 01:26:43,500
right and this is a very intelligent man

2124
01:26:48,050 --> 01:26:46,199
he's this is not a superstitious man but

2125
01:26:49,370 --> 01:26:48,060
as I said he is a minister he's a man of

2126
01:26:51,290 --> 01:26:49,380
Faith

2127
01:26:55,010 --> 01:26:51,300
um and I just find this interesting

2128
01:26:57,770 --> 01:26:55,020
because uh uh I would personally also

2129
01:27:00,530 --> 01:26:57,780
add that possibility onto the list of

2130
01:27:01,910 --> 01:27:00,540
possibles in terms of talking about this

2131
01:27:05,270 --> 01:27:01,920
phenomenon

2132
01:27:06,950 --> 01:27:05,280
um I think it was uh Luis that said

2133
01:27:09,169 --> 01:27:06,960
um there's been some discussion about

2134
01:27:12,550 --> 01:27:09,179
presences being with the human race for

2135
01:27:15,530 --> 01:27:12,560
a very very long time well the religious

2136
01:27:18,290 --> 01:27:15,540
Traditions say exactly that

2137
01:27:20,450 --> 01:27:18,300
that there are good guy uh spirits and

2138
01:27:21,890 --> 01:27:20,460
there are bad guy spirits and they're

2139
01:27:25,250 --> 01:27:21,900
hanging around and getting involved in

2140
01:27:27,950 --> 01:27:25,260
our business so who knows all I can say

2141
01:27:30,229 --> 01:27:27,960
is that if I wanted to pull the wool

2142
01:27:31,970 --> 01:27:30,239
over the eyes of modern man

2143
01:27:34,669 --> 01:27:31,980
and I was some kind of spiritual

2144
01:27:37,070 --> 01:27:34,679
creature with an agenda uh showing up

2145
01:27:39,350 --> 01:27:37,080
looking highly technical highly

2146
01:27:42,050 --> 01:27:39,360
technological would be a great way to do

2147
01:27:44,510 --> 01:27:42,060
it and so I I think it's interesting

2148
01:27:47,030 --> 01:27:44,520
that um they're they're perceived as

2149
01:27:48,890 --> 01:27:47,040
negative or dark as you put it is there

2150
01:27:50,990 --> 01:27:48,900
a reason for that

2151
01:27:52,490 --> 01:27:51,000
um that yes there is

2152
01:27:54,290 --> 01:27:52,500
um

2153
01:27:56,270 --> 01:27:54,300
that requires a knowledge of the

2154
01:28:01,310 --> 01:27:56,280
Christian scriptures

2155
01:28:03,169 --> 01:28:01,320
the end times that uh the forces of

2156
01:28:05,990 --> 01:28:03,179
Darkness will seek to deceive the human

2157
01:28:07,930 --> 01:28:06,000
race into believing all kinds of wrong

2158
01:28:12,229 --> 01:28:07,940
things and harmful things

2159
01:28:16,850 --> 01:28:12,239
uh uh in the run-up to the return of

2160
01:28:19,930 --> 01:28:16,860
Christ and that therefore not only

2161
01:28:23,570 --> 01:28:19,940
um are the bad not only are the bad ETS

2162
01:28:26,750 --> 01:28:23,580
uh uh uh a sign of this but they also

2163
01:28:29,870 --> 01:28:26,760
are a sign that history is about to uh

2164
01:28:34,129 --> 01:28:29,880
move past history into whatever is that

2165
01:28:34,790 --> 01:28:34,139
great and final day of of eschatology

2166
01:28:37,070 --> 01:28:34,800
um

2167
01:28:39,830 --> 01:28:37,080
so if you buy that you buy that if you

2168
01:28:42,890 --> 01:28:39,840
don't you don't right I'm also I'm also

2169
01:28:44,149 --> 01:28:42,900
aware that that uh although Rey is a

2170
01:28:46,669 --> 01:28:44,159
Lutheran and therefore would be

2171
01:28:50,450 --> 01:28:46,679
considered to be a Christian within

2172
01:28:54,410 --> 01:28:50,460
normal limits uh people like Billy

2173
01:28:56,750 --> 01:28:54,420
Graham and others in the fever swap of

2174
01:28:59,570 --> 01:28:56,760
the Christian Evangelical movement also

2175
01:29:04,070 --> 01:28:59,580
make the same argument about about ETS

2176
01:29:07,430 --> 01:29:04,080
and about uh uh UFOs and such there's a

2177
01:29:09,129 --> 01:29:07,440
deception and uh the employer we in

2178
01:29:13,430 --> 01:29:09,139
trouble

2179
01:29:15,709 --> 01:29:13,440
yes it's an interesting uh yeah a point

2180
01:29:17,629 --> 01:29:15,719
um now like the idea of something being

2181
01:29:20,270 --> 01:29:17,639
with us throughout history that's

2182
01:29:22,490 --> 01:29:20,280
something that I personally can relate

2183
01:29:23,990 --> 01:29:22,500
to because like I said like sometimes

2184
01:29:25,610 --> 01:29:24,000
when I wake up five to ten seconds I

2185
01:29:28,370 --> 01:29:25,620
have hallucinations that's just the

2186
01:29:30,590 --> 01:29:28,380
medical condition maybe people and but

2187
01:29:32,870 --> 01:29:30,600
but getting into this community studying

2188
01:29:34,790 --> 01:29:32,880
it I see people and I keep on talking

2189
01:29:35,930 --> 01:29:34,800
about an observation and then an

2190
01:29:38,990 --> 01:29:35,940
interpretation

2191
01:29:41,149 --> 01:29:39,000
so many people I've seen have based not

2192
01:29:43,729 --> 01:29:41,159
only their world view but they're like

2193
01:29:47,270 --> 01:29:43,739
livelihood and their identity around

2194
01:29:49,910 --> 01:29:47,280
experiences that I have basically had

2195
01:29:51,229 --> 01:29:49,920
and I don't even think about them for

2196
01:29:52,669 --> 01:29:51,239
most of my life until I got involved in

2197
01:29:53,750 --> 01:29:52,679
this subject because it wasn't relevant

2198
01:29:55,850 --> 01:29:53,760
to me it was just like oh if I just said

2199
01:29:59,270 --> 01:29:55,860
whatever it doesn't matter how

2200
01:30:01,370 --> 01:29:59,280
throughout history would we like if I

2201
01:30:02,870 --> 01:30:01,380
was born 500 years ago I would assume

2202
01:30:04,189 --> 01:30:02,880
something was like communicating with me

2203
01:30:05,750 --> 01:30:04,199
it would be natural to assume that

2204
01:30:07,970 --> 01:30:05,760
because there was a there's no plausible

2205
01:30:10,129 --> 01:30:07,980
explanation alternative right that's the

2206
01:30:12,290 --> 01:30:10,139
only worldview I have how would we be

2207
01:30:14,090 --> 01:30:12,300
able knowing that we're in a world where

2208
01:30:16,490 --> 01:30:14,100
the human mind can do things like that

2209
01:30:18,669 --> 01:30:16,500
how can we differentiate between those

2210
01:30:23,390 --> 01:30:18,679
things and these things in history that

2211
01:30:28,970 --> 01:30:26,270
um that's that's an interesting topic

2212
01:30:30,169 --> 01:30:28,980
for discussion I don't know but as

2213
01:30:33,770 --> 01:30:30,179
you're aware

2214
01:30:35,570 --> 01:30:33,780
um valet and Magonia basically argues

2215
01:30:37,810 --> 01:30:35,580
that the gods and goddesses of of

2216
01:30:41,570 --> 01:30:37,820
antique times

2217
01:30:45,410 --> 01:30:41,580
are the Angels and Saints of later times

2218
01:30:47,990 --> 01:30:45,420
are the fairies and elves of of the

2219
01:30:50,750 --> 01:30:48,000
Catholic mythology and now we have ETS

2220
01:30:53,750 --> 01:30:50,760
and it's all the same thing it's just

2221
01:30:57,290 --> 01:30:53,760
how we perceive them what we perceive

2222
01:31:00,169 --> 01:30:57,300
them to be is very mediated by culture

2223
01:31:02,750 --> 01:31:00,179
so in the modern times in our in our in

2224
01:31:05,350 --> 01:31:02,760
our technological times uh the

2225
01:31:09,229 --> 01:31:05,360
scientific materialistic technological

2226
01:31:12,590 --> 01:31:09,239
we see spaceships and critters from

2227
01:31:16,070 --> 01:31:12,600
other planets or galaxies but it's the

2228
01:31:18,169 --> 01:31:16,080
same presence having different forms so

2229
01:31:19,850 --> 01:31:18,179
500 years ago Campbell

2230
01:31:22,729 --> 01:31:19,860
uh depending on where you were in the

2231
01:31:25,010 --> 01:31:22,739
world but let's say you were in Europe

2232
01:31:28,310 --> 01:31:25,020
um you would be thinking that you were

2233
01:31:30,229 --> 01:31:28,320
having Angelic visitations or or or

2234
01:31:32,510 --> 01:31:30,239
Saints were appearing to you or

2235
01:31:34,490 --> 01:31:32,520
something like that because you would be

2236
01:31:36,649 --> 01:31:34,500
living 500 years ago in either a

2237
01:31:38,930 --> 01:31:36,659
Catholic or a Protestant culture and

2238
01:31:42,050 --> 01:31:38,940
that would have been in in both those

2239
01:31:43,669 --> 01:31:42,060
cases the modality of understanding such

2240
01:31:46,010 --> 01:31:43,679
an experience

2241
01:31:49,370 --> 01:31:46,020
so I mean I I

2242
01:31:52,370 --> 01:31:49,380
tend to think that the way is on to

2243
01:31:54,169 --> 01:31:52,380
something in this discussion

2244
01:31:55,430 --> 01:31:54,179
um and that we have in fact that there

2245
01:31:58,010 --> 01:31:55,440
has been

2246
01:32:00,050 --> 01:31:58,020
something there for as long as we have

2247
01:32:02,450 --> 01:32:00,060
human history and human culture

2248
01:32:04,070 --> 01:32:02,460
and it's going to be what that something

2249
01:32:05,810 --> 01:32:04,080
is it's one of the reasons we're all

2250
01:32:07,990 --> 01:32:05,820
sitting around talking to try to figure

2251
01:32:12,290 --> 01:32:08,000
it out aren't we

2252
01:32:15,050 --> 01:32:12,300
and isn't it fun yes

2253
01:32:17,090 --> 01:32:15,060
yes it's it's a pit with no bottom

2254
01:32:19,030 --> 01:32:17,100
uh

2255
01:32:23,390 --> 01:32:19,040
maybe

2256
01:32:25,550 --> 01:32:23,400
would you look just quickly relate to us

2257
01:32:27,970 --> 01:32:25,560
how did you get interested in this

2258
01:32:31,430 --> 01:32:27,980
subject initially

2259
01:32:34,790 --> 01:32:31,440
well that's a big question because uh

2260
01:32:37,490 --> 01:32:34,800
when you say this subject it would

2261
01:32:39,350 --> 01:32:37,500
actually be a matter of a plural uh

2262
01:32:40,490 --> 01:32:39,360
situation

2263
01:32:43,070 --> 01:32:40,500
um

2264
01:32:45,649 --> 01:32:43,080
I've always had

2265
01:32:47,810 --> 01:32:45,659
odd experiences

2266
01:32:49,370 --> 01:32:47,820
um going back to childhood

2267
01:32:51,470 --> 01:32:49,380
um friends of mine who say they're

2268
01:32:53,629 --> 01:32:51,480
psychics say that I am psychic I don't

2269
01:32:56,590 --> 01:32:53,639
know what that means so I make no such

2270
01:33:00,530 --> 01:32:56,600
claim It's just sometimes I know stuff

2271
01:33:02,750 --> 01:33:00,540
sometimes I imagine stuff

2272
01:33:04,610 --> 01:33:02,760
and it all happens to work out by

2273
01:33:06,290 --> 01:33:04,620
synchronicity to be

2274
01:33:08,930 --> 01:33:06,300
somehow real

2275
01:33:12,229 --> 01:33:08,940
uh so there was that

2276
01:33:14,350 --> 01:33:12,239
um then um as I posted before out of the

2277
01:33:18,050 --> 01:33:14,360
Clear Blue Sky I would consider myself

2278
01:33:19,370 --> 01:33:18,060
fairly conventional in lifestyle and

2279
01:33:21,169 --> 01:33:19,380
life story

2280
01:33:24,290 --> 01:33:21,179
except that

2281
01:33:26,990 --> 01:33:24,300
um One Fine Day in 1979 my wife and I

2282
01:33:30,770 --> 01:33:27,000
are driving back from an event that we

2283
01:33:33,010 --> 01:33:30,780
had attended and we saw not one UFO but

2284
01:33:37,189 --> 01:33:33,020
two UFOs

2285
01:33:39,290 --> 01:33:37,199
uh it was a very dramatic experience it

2286
01:33:43,310 --> 01:33:39,300
was a sighting it was not an objection

2287
01:33:45,290 --> 01:33:43,320
it was not there was no ATS involved it

2288
01:33:46,870 --> 01:33:45,300
was these these astonishing triangular

2289
01:33:51,229 --> 01:33:46,880
things in the sky

2290
01:33:52,669 --> 01:33:51,239
and uh uh it was 1979 I didn't know what

2291
01:33:54,830 --> 01:33:52,679
to do about this

2292
01:33:56,810 --> 01:33:54,840
uh was this your first time seeing

2293
01:34:00,050 --> 01:33:56,820
something like this yes something like

2294
01:34:02,390 --> 01:34:00,060
that yes yeah absolutely absolutely and

2295
01:34:05,629 --> 01:34:02,400
I I'd have to say that Loretta and I

2296
01:34:06,770 --> 01:34:05,639
have both grown up within 25 miles of

2297
01:34:09,950 --> 01:34:06,780
Manhattan

2298
01:34:14,149 --> 01:34:09,960
uh there are three major airports we

2299
01:34:16,729 --> 01:34:14,159
have seen all manner of flying craft in

2300
01:34:19,850 --> 01:34:16,739
all seasons of the Year all weather

2301
01:34:22,010 --> 01:34:19,860
conditions at all times of day and

2302
01:34:24,110 --> 01:34:22,020
believe me I have not seen anything like

2303
01:34:25,970 --> 01:34:24,120
that before or since

2304
01:34:28,010 --> 01:34:25,980
and it was sufficient enough that I

2305
01:34:30,709 --> 01:34:28,020
could stop the car and get out

2306
01:34:33,290 --> 01:34:30,719
and watch it go actually two of them

2307
01:34:37,010 --> 01:34:33,300
because it was one after the other and

2308
01:34:39,470 --> 01:34:37,020
uh got back in the car and with my good

2309
01:34:42,110 --> 01:34:39,480
journalistic training I said to my wife

2310
01:34:44,330 --> 01:34:42,120
I said we're not talking about this now

2311
01:34:45,830 --> 01:34:44,340
so we drove home in silence and I got

2312
01:34:47,810 --> 01:34:45,840
home in silence I said here's what we're

2313
01:34:49,370 --> 01:34:47,820
going to do I'm going in this room

2314
01:34:52,149 --> 01:34:49,380
you're going in that room and we're

2315
01:34:54,830 --> 01:34:52,159
going to write down what we saw

2316
01:34:58,250 --> 01:34:54,840
right I did this in order to avoid any

2317
01:35:00,590 --> 01:34:58,260
sort of cross-contamination right so I

2318
01:35:02,330 --> 01:35:00,600
did my thing she did her thing then we

2319
01:35:04,090 --> 01:35:02,340
got together and compared notes and we

2320
01:35:07,149 --> 01:35:04,100
whatever it was we saw the same thing

2321
01:35:13,810 --> 01:35:07,159
and and I was such a Boy Scout

2322
01:35:19,550 --> 01:35:16,790
I called the local police and I

2323
01:35:21,350 --> 01:35:19,560
explained to the officer is anybody

2324
01:35:23,330 --> 01:35:21,360
talking about strange lights in the sky

2325
01:35:25,370 --> 01:35:23,340
and I could tell that he was mildly

2326
01:35:27,050 --> 01:35:25,380
amused but very professional and

2327
01:35:29,030 --> 01:35:27,060
courteous and he said no they had been

2328
01:35:32,750 --> 01:35:29,040
receiving no reports

2329
01:35:36,290 --> 01:35:32,760
I said okay thank you uh the next day I

2330
01:35:38,570 --> 01:35:36,300
talked to the aviation beat reporter at

2331
01:35:40,669 --> 01:35:38,580
the major New Jersey newspaper

2332
01:35:41,930 --> 01:35:40,679
and said I want to speak to somebody at

2333
01:35:44,810 --> 01:35:41,940
Newark Airport

2334
01:35:46,910 --> 01:35:44,820
can you do that he said yes

2335
01:35:49,910 --> 01:35:46,920
so I did speak to a gentleman at the

2336
01:35:51,350 --> 01:35:49,920
Newark Airport and after he was

2337
01:35:52,729 --> 01:35:51,360
reassured that there would be no

2338
01:35:56,330 --> 01:35:52,739
publicity

2339
01:35:57,770 --> 01:35:56,340
this was a strictly private inquiry he

2340
01:35:59,810 --> 01:35:57,780
checked

2341
01:36:02,450 --> 01:35:59,820
what there was to check and there was

2342
01:36:05,030 --> 01:36:02,460
nothing to account for what we saw in

2343
01:36:07,310 --> 01:36:05,040
the the data present at what is now

2344
01:36:10,189 --> 01:36:07,320
Newark Liberty International but in

2345
01:36:11,930 --> 01:36:10,199
those days was simply Newark airport so

2346
01:36:14,810 --> 01:36:11,940
then I said to myself next stop would be

2347
01:36:18,110 --> 01:36:14,820
McGuire Air Force Base which is about 60

2348
01:36:19,970 --> 01:36:18,120
miles Southwest of this but I was not so

2349
01:36:21,350 --> 01:36:19,980
naive as to think that I could call up

2350
01:36:23,689 --> 01:36:21,360
the Air Force

2351
01:36:27,050 --> 01:36:23,699
and they would proceed to answer these

2352
01:36:30,169 --> 01:36:27,060
questions so I let it I Let It Go

2353
01:36:33,410 --> 01:36:30,179
um the Ada should be reporter uh Tim Tim

2354
01:36:35,390 --> 01:36:33,420
O'Brien Heaven rest his soul great guy

2355
01:36:37,430 --> 01:36:35,400
um he was the one who turned me on to

2356
01:36:39,590 --> 01:36:37,440
the existence of mufon

2357
01:36:42,350 --> 01:36:39,600
now this is pre-digital this is

2358
01:36:45,709 --> 01:36:42,360
pre-everything I had to find a meeting I

2359
01:36:47,870 --> 01:36:45,719
went to the meeting and never went back

2360
01:36:52,129 --> 01:36:47,880
all right all right UFO people right

2361
01:36:54,050 --> 01:36:52,139
yeah I said I did I I don't think we're

2362
01:36:56,030 --> 01:36:54,060
going to be doing this at all so that's

2363
01:36:59,090 --> 01:36:56,040
a bit of the story but I've had various

2364
01:37:01,250 --> 01:36:59,100
things happen and at the same time I

2365
01:37:04,610 --> 01:37:01,260
have remained a I think a pretty

2366
01:37:07,070 --> 01:37:04,620
committed rationalist a pretty committed

2367
01:37:08,330 --> 01:37:07,080
uh critical thinker evidence-based

2368
01:37:11,689 --> 01:37:08,340
person

2369
01:37:16,430 --> 01:37:11,699
and I've never as I said gotten on to

2370
01:37:19,250 --> 01:37:16,440
any uh uh bandwagon with

2371
01:37:23,149 --> 01:37:19,260
this subject but it has been fascinating

2372
01:37:25,729 --> 01:37:23,159
to meet people to read to study to watch

2373
01:37:28,010 --> 01:37:25,739
uh over the years everything that that

2374
01:37:29,629 --> 01:37:28,020
happened but I really only got into this

2375
01:37:33,110 --> 01:37:29,639
heavily

2376
01:37:35,030 --> 01:37:33,120
um after the famous uh Chicago O'Hare

2377
01:37:38,570 --> 01:37:35,040
Airport sighting that was reported on

2378
01:37:41,629 --> 01:37:38,580
CNN in 2006 when I said all right that's

2379
01:37:42,709 --> 01:37:41,639
all I need to know more and so I've been

2380
01:37:46,250 --> 01:37:42,719
very

2381
01:37:49,010 --> 01:37:46,260
uh plugged in ever since 2006. so that's

2382
01:37:51,110 --> 01:37:49,020
the story yeah uh

2383
01:37:52,910 --> 01:37:51,120
clarifying question about your sighting

2384
01:37:55,370 --> 01:37:52,920
were they triangles or are they v-shaped

2385
01:37:57,110 --> 01:37:55,380
they were triangles okay just they were

2386
01:37:59,510 --> 01:37:57,120
they were they were they were perfect

2387
01:38:02,629 --> 01:37:59,520
equilateral triangles with lights at the

2388
01:38:05,209 --> 01:38:02,639
apices at the at the at the points

2389
01:38:08,030 --> 01:38:05,219
um their Starshine could not be seen

2390
01:38:10,129 --> 01:38:08,040
through the Bodies Okay meaning that's

2391
01:38:12,129 --> 01:38:10,139
driving the uh the Stormville martians

2392
01:38:14,930 --> 01:38:12,139
then yeah yeah

2393
01:38:16,790 --> 01:38:14,940
and and they were I and they were the

2394
01:38:18,649 --> 01:38:16,800
size of my fist at the length of my arm

2395
01:38:21,530 --> 01:38:18,659
they were they were large

2396
01:38:24,649 --> 01:38:21,540
so they were either close or enormous

2397
01:38:27,050 --> 01:38:24,659
because obviously yeah it's

2398
01:38:29,330 --> 01:38:27,060
um visual conditions for this sighting

2399
01:38:32,810 --> 01:38:29,340
were very good

2400
01:38:35,090 --> 01:38:32,820
um uh and I that so so that's it I saw

2401
01:38:37,490 --> 01:38:35,100
that and that's all I've ever seen yeah

2402
01:38:40,370 --> 01:38:37,500
entering in terms of DTS and such when

2403
01:38:47,590 --> 01:38:40,380
was that you might have mentioned in

2404
01:38:54,470 --> 01:38:52,010
Belgian wave hmm yeah um I've seen the

2405
01:38:57,290 --> 01:38:54,480
belt the so-called Belgian pictures and

2406
01:38:59,270 --> 01:38:57,300
that isn't what I saw right right the

2407
01:39:00,890 --> 01:38:59,280
Belgian wave pictures whatever they were

2408
01:39:02,990 --> 01:39:00,900
that whether they're true or false and I

2409
01:39:04,610 --> 01:39:03,000
know about the controversy

2410
01:39:07,189 --> 01:39:04,620
um that was not what I saw what I saw

2411
01:39:09,950 --> 01:39:07,199
was far more geometrical meaning it

2412
01:39:13,129 --> 01:39:09,960
looked like hard lines and there were

2413
01:39:15,770 --> 01:39:13,139
nice bright as I said points at the

2414
01:39:18,669 --> 01:39:15,780
apices uh uh uh but they they weren't

2415
01:39:21,050 --> 01:39:18,679
colored they were white whitish bluish

2416
01:39:23,450 --> 01:39:21,060
uh in in color

2417
01:39:25,850 --> 01:39:23,460
it wasn't that uh

2418
01:39:27,530 --> 01:39:25,860
that rainbow lights that that the

2419
01:39:30,830 --> 01:39:27,540
belgians the Belgian thinks apparently

2420
01:39:36,110 --> 01:39:33,830
description because you clearly have an

2421
01:39:38,689 --> 01:39:36,120
observation of you know what you're

2422
01:39:40,430 --> 01:39:38,699
describing and a significant number of

2423
01:39:42,950 --> 01:39:40,440
people who I've talked to who are in

2424
01:39:45,830 --> 01:39:42,960
this sort of middle uh space that we

2425
01:39:47,810 --> 01:39:45,840
occupy a number of people like uh Jeff

2426
01:39:51,350 --> 01:39:47,820
from strange Rock Recon

2427
01:39:54,290 --> 01:39:51,360
um Steve long they have all seen made an

2428
01:39:56,270 --> 01:39:54,300
observation of oh yeah the black

2429
01:39:58,010 --> 01:39:56,280
triangles Dr Massimo theater Rani our

2430
01:40:00,709 --> 01:39:58,020
first guest he talked in detail about

2431
01:40:04,610 --> 01:40:00,719
how he saw an exact same type of object

2432
01:40:06,410 --> 01:40:04,620
coming come above it so you know it

2433
01:40:07,850 --> 01:40:06,420
makes me wonder about things and uh

2434
01:40:09,350 --> 01:40:07,860
another subject we're going to get into

2435
01:40:12,050 --> 01:40:09,360
actually if we have time was the

2436
01:40:14,330 --> 01:40:12,060
launching of the UAP study group and uh

2437
01:40:17,030 --> 01:40:14,340
just very quickly the top researcher on

2438
01:40:19,010 --> 01:40:17,040
UAP study group uh John Greenwald Jr

2439
01:40:21,830 --> 01:40:19,020
from the black hole successfully foyed

2440
01:40:23,930 --> 01:40:21,840
internal memos from that researcher and

2441
01:40:26,689 --> 01:40:23,940
that researcher and his internal memos

2442
01:40:29,629 --> 01:40:26,699
has uh referenced directly something

2443
01:40:31,610 --> 01:40:29,639
called skirmians which are lab

2444
01:40:34,550 --> 01:40:31,620
reproducible fall lightning phenomena

2445
01:40:36,890 --> 01:40:34,560
that form geometric triangular shapes

2446
01:40:38,810 --> 01:40:36,900
and the UK Ministry of Defense secret

2447
01:40:40,310 --> 01:40:38,820
study on this subject actually said they

2448
01:40:41,450 --> 01:40:40,320
think that that's what people are seeing

2449
01:40:43,430 --> 01:40:41,460
in the atmosphere they think that the

2450
01:40:45,470 --> 01:40:43,440
black triangles are real and that they

2451
01:40:48,470 --> 01:40:45,480
are this electromagnetic thing and the

2452
01:40:50,450 --> 01:40:48,480
UAP study group from NASA guy is citing

2453
01:40:52,070 --> 01:40:50,460
those in his internal memos what do you

2454
01:40:53,689 --> 01:40:52,080
think that that is a possible

2455
01:40:56,030 --> 01:40:53,699
explanation for what you saw or do you

2456
01:40:57,830 --> 01:40:56,040
think that that's all no no absolutely

2457
01:41:00,830 --> 01:40:57,840
that is absolutely a possible

2458
01:41:03,350 --> 01:41:00,840
explanation of what I saw meaning if if

2459
01:41:06,350 --> 01:41:03,360
if proof could be presented to me

2460
01:41:08,629 --> 01:41:06,360
tomorrow that this would scare me on or

2461
01:41:11,510 --> 01:41:08,639
that this was some Advanced Tech secret

2462
01:41:13,370 --> 01:41:11,520
Tech that sort of thing and and I I

2463
01:41:15,850 --> 01:41:13,380
would I would accept that as explaining

2464
01:41:18,590 --> 01:41:15,860
the experience

2465
01:41:21,350 --> 01:41:18,600
that is an amazing thing to hear I think

2466
01:41:23,270 --> 01:41:21,360
that everybody should be taking notes on

2467
01:41:25,669 --> 01:41:23,280
you're from you on how people should

2468
01:41:27,050 --> 01:41:25,679
approach this phenomenon absolutely this

2469
01:41:30,709 --> 01:41:27,060
is why we're all so happy you're here

2470
01:41:35,750 --> 01:41:33,229
when you think back to the sighting we

2471
01:41:38,390 --> 01:41:35,760
had a couple questions from the audience

2472
01:41:39,770 --> 01:41:38,400
um was there sound and how fast did it

2473
01:41:41,390 --> 01:41:39,780
seem to be moving

2474
01:41:43,250 --> 01:41:41,400
um there was no it was soundless which

2475
01:41:45,649 --> 01:41:43,260
was one of the Eerie things

2476
01:41:47,570 --> 01:41:45,659
should you see this big thing up there

2477
01:41:49,850 --> 01:41:47,580
and and it's really to be completely

2478
01:41:52,070 --> 01:41:49,860
soundless although when I say Eerie it

2479
01:41:55,790 --> 01:41:52,080
is eeril only in retrospect

2480
01:41:57,530 --> 01:41:55,800
um we felt no fear or alarm in this

2481
01:42:00,649 --> 01:41:57,540
experience we were basically kind of

2482
01:42:02,810 --> 01:42:00,659
awestruck right to watch it actually all

2483
01:42:05,090 --> 01:42:02,820
right uh we were all struck only later

2484
01:42:07,010 --> 01:42:05,100
did I wonder myself well you know could

2485
01:42:09,109 --> 01:42:07,020
that could could there be could there

2486
01:42:11,629 --> 01:42:09,119
have been danger there but there wasn't

2487
01:42:13,669 --> 01:42:11,639
in the experience I'm just saying it was

2488
01:42:17,629 --> 01:42:13,679
completely silent

2489
01:42:19,729 --> 01:42:17,639
um and let me see uh well the other

2490
01:42:23,209 --> 01:42:19,739
night was it

2491
01:42:25,870 --> 01:42:23,219
um it was um a very clear fall night

2492
01:42:28,189 --> 01:42:25,880
right you know very very Crystal Clear

2493
01:42:31,070 --> 01:42:28,199
fall night

2494
01:42:33,890 --> 01:42:31,080
um I went back in fact and put it

2495
01:42:35,450 --> 01:42:33,900
together what study I did at the time

2496
01:42:37,910 --> 01:42:35,460
and I checked all the weather factors

2497
01:42:39,770 --> 01:42:37,920
and I got that documented and it was you

2498
01:42:41,149 --> 01:42:39,780
know perfectly clear lovely lovely fall

2499
01:42:44,270 --> 01:42:41,159
night

2500
01:42:45,410 --> 01:42:44,280
um you asked about the speed that was

2501
01:42:49,930 --> 01:42:45,420
one of the things that I've never

2502
01:42:53,149 --> 01:42:49,940
forgotten um they moved it seemed to me

2503
01:42:55,550 --> 01:42:53,159
surprisingly slowly and it was the

2504
01:42:57,350 --> 01:42:55,560
quality of the movement that I've never

2505
01:43:00,649 --> 01:42:57,360
seen before since

2506
01:43:02,209 --> 01:43:00,659
they didn't seem to be so much flying as

2507
01:43:04,930 --> 01:43:02,219
floating

2508
01:43:07,490 --> 01:43:04,940
so I've also wondered occasionally about

2509
01:43:10,189 --> 01:43:07,500
uh uh

2510
01:43:12,290 --> 01:43:10,199
the possibility of some kind of

2511
01:43:16,310 --> 01:43:12,300
sophisticated imagery

2512
01:43:20,149 --> 01:43:16,320
happening as opposed to a solid object

2513
01:43:23,090 --> 01:43:20,159
um there was a floating gliding quality

2514
01:43:25,550 --> 01:43:23,100
to the motion that was very strange and

2515
01:43:31,090 --> 01:43:25,560
again again on uh unknown to me before

2516
01:43:34,790 --> 01:43:31,100
or since uh uh but that's all it can say

2517
01:43:37,669 --> 01:43:34,800
uh uh that it happened once

2518
01:43:40,790 --> 01:43:37,679
um I would certainly be open to having

2519
01:43:44,450 --> 01:43:40,800
such an experience again uh if anybody

2520
01:43:47,209 --> 01:43:44,460
out there is listening ho ho ho but I I

2521
01:43:49,129 --> 01:43:47,219
don't pursue these things I mean I'm I'm

2522
01:43:52,550 --> 01:43:49,139
different from people that I've known in

2523
01:43:54,050 --> 01:43:52,560
so far as I don't go searching out in

2524
01:43:57,410 --> 01:43:54,060
the fields in the middle of the night to

2525
01:43:58,090 --> 01:43:57,420
see a UFO or or UAP which I think is

2526
01:43:59,209 --> 01:43:58,100
silly

2527
01:44:02,510 --> 01:43:59,219
[Music]

2528
01:44:04,790 --> 01:44:02,520
um but you know that's the story

2529
01:44:07,250 --> 01:44:04,800
where exactly did it happen can you like

2530
01:44:10,250 --> 01:44:07,260
maybe we can reconstruct on Google Maps

2531
01:44:13,430 --> 01:44:10,260
like where it is I actually I actually

2532
01:44:15,770 --> 01:44:13,440
have have the latitude longitude

2533
01:44:18,830 --> 01:44:15,780
um I can give you that

2534
01:44:21,530 --> 01:44:18,840
um Luis what I've done is I've created a

2535
01:44:23,030 --> 01:44:21,540
thread on UFO Twitter that talks about

2536
01:44:24,770 --> 01:44:23,040
this and it'll give you latitude

2537
01:44:27,410 --> 01:44:24,780
longitude now simply send it to your

2538
01:44:29,330 --> 01:44:27,420
Twitter and it's as I said it's it's

2539
01:44:30,890 --> 01:44:29,340
it's it's open anybody who wants to

2540
01:44:34,850 --> 01:44:30,900
share it can share it there's nothing

2541
01:44:39,370 --> 01:44:34,860
confidential in it I think it's a thread

2542
01:44:42,350 --> 01:44:39,380
of maybe 15 to 20

2543
01:44:44,689 --> 01:44:42,360
items and uh

2544
01:44:46,490 --> 01:44:44,699
did you try to like document what you

2545
01:44:48,709 --> 01:44:46,500
saw like immediately after like when you

2546
01:44:51,770 --> 01:44:48,719
got them maybe you wrote it down see yes

2547
01:44:54,709 --> 01:44:51,780
yes okay yeah yeah

2548
01:44:58,370 --> 01:44:54,719
um um my background is in journalism

2549
01:45:03,229 --> 01:44:58,380
so I I have a uh that's what I naturally

2550
01:45:09,470 --> 01:45:05,930
so I mean I just I did that but did I

2551
01:45:12,649 --> 01:45:09,480
report it to move on no beyond beyond

2552
01:45:15,350 --> 01:45:12,659
calling the cops I did not pursue

2553
01:45:19,729 --> 01:45:15,360
um any follow-up from any

2554
01:45:21,350 --> 01:45:19,739
on any basis of this uh uh there also

2555
01:45:24,950 --> 01:45:21,360
were no reports

2556
01:45:27,290 --> 01:45:24,960
of uh this was a densely uh densely

2557
01:45:29,930 --> 01:45:27,300
congested populated area of Northern New

2558
01:45:31,250 --> 01:45:29,940
Jersey I said within 25 miles of New

2559
01:45:32,290 --> 01:45:31,260
York

2560
01:45:34,970 --> 01:45:32,300
um

2561
01:45:37,790 --> 01:45:34,980
in theory what was up there should have

2562
01:45:39,770 --> 01:45:37,800
been visible to thousands and thousands

2563
01:45:43,689 --> 01:45:39,780
of people right well there were no

2564
01:45:49,129 --> 01:45:46,430
in the aftermath of that night

2565
01:45:50,450 --> 01:45:49,139
was it was it a very late time of night

2566
01:45:52,970 --> 01:45:50,460
or was it like eight o'clock or

2567
01:45:54,649 --> 01:45:52,980
something it was about 11 o'clock oh

2568
01:45:57,229 --> 01:45:54,659
okay so it's not even like it was at

2569
01:45:59,870 --> 01:45:57,239
some crazy time it was late you know

2570
01:46:01,370 --> 01:45:59,880
yeah well you you have to tag Us in this

2571
01:46:02,750 --> 01:46:01,380
thread because I want to know more it

2572
01:46:05,390 --> 01:46:02,760
seems like everybody in the chat wants

2573
01:46:08,990 --> 01:46:05,400
to know more too it sounds like the

2574
01:46:11,149 --> 01:46:09,000
um there is there is some humor here all

2575
01:46:12,709 --> 01:46:11,159
right there there always is

2576
01:46:14,890 --> 01:46:12,719
um it's a long story but I happen to

2577
01:46:19,729 --> 01:46:14,900
have known the poet Alan Ginsberg well

2578
01:46:21,530 --> 01:46:19,739
and Loretta um yeah my wife and I my

2579
01:46:24,970 --> 01:46:21,540
wife and I had actually been to a poetry

2580
01:46:27,590 --> 01:46:24,980
reading that Alan gave excuse me

2581
01:46:31,010 --> 01:46:27,600
in Morris County New Jersey and we were

2582
01:46:33,890 --> 01:46:31,020
coming back from the poetry reading so I

2583
01:46:35,570 --> 01:46:33,900
I I I dropped him a note later that they

2584
01:46:37,970 --> 01:46:35,580
told them the poetry reading had so

2585
01:46:40,129 --> 01:46:37,980
cracked my brain that I had this

2586
01:46:43,870 --> 01:46:40,139
Visionary ecstatic experience in the

2587
01:46:46,250 --> 01:46:43,880
aftermath and he laughed oh my God

2588
01:46:48,290 --> 01:46:46,260
he did he left it

2589
01:46:50,090 --> 01:46:48,300
um uh but the but if you want to talk

2590
01:46:52,850 --> 01:46:50,100
about odd

2591
01:46:54,350 --> 01:46:52,860
um I've sometimes wondered if there

2592
01:46:56,870 --> 01:46:54,360
could not have been something going on

2593
01:46:59,330 --> 01:46:56,880
because he was doing it Allen at that

2594
01:47:06,129 --> 01:46:59,340
time was doing uh chance

2595
01:47:12,430 --> 01:47:10,729
a lot of that program that night was him

2596
01:47:15,410 --> 01:47:12,440
with an harmonian

2597
01:47:17,390 --> 01:47:15,420
him with a harmonium chanting the poems

2598
01:47:20,030 --> 01:47:17,400
of William Blake and if you're gonna see

2599
01:47:21,290 --> 01:47:20,040
angels dancing in the skies Blake is

2600
01:47:26,530 --> 01:47:21,300
perfect

2601
01:47:30,109 --> 01:47:26,540
teed up for a psychedelics yeah

2602
01:47:32,450 --> 01:47:30,119
yeah exactly exactly psychedelic

2603
01:47:34,010 --> 01:47:32,460
experience without psychedelics

2604
01:47:35,209 --> 01:47:34,020
um but that's the only I've often

2605
01:47:38,870 --> 01:47:35,219
wondered

2606
01:47:41,750 --> 01:47:38,880
just out of curiosity if there was any

2607
01:47:43,970 --> 01:47:41,760
precipitating anything that came away

2608
01:47:45,609 --> 01:47:43,980
from the experience of spending the

2609
01:47:48,169 --> 01:47:45,619
better part of an hour or whatever

2610
01:47:50,570 --> 01:47:48,179
getting into getting into chanting and

2611
01:47:52,910 --> 01:47:50,580
William Blake who knows

2612
01:47:54,950 --> 01:47:52,920
as someone who pretty regularly does

2613
01:47:56,990 --> 01:47:54,960
things like chanting for a bunch of

2614
01:48:00,169 --> 01:47:57,000
hours and reading things like William

2615
01:48:02,930 --> 01:48:00,179
Blake uh highly recommended experience

2616
01:48:05,030 --> 01:48:02,940
but um I'd love for it to induce a UFO

2617
01:48:07,790 --> 01:48:05,040
experience for me but um it hasn't yet

2618
01:48:11,629 --> 01:48:07,800
happened unfortunately

2619
01:48:13,310 --> 01:48:11,639
no okay when um when the stories were

2620
01:48:14,450 --> 01:48:13,320
coming out about the Hudson Valley

2621
01:48:17,330 --> 01:48:14,460
sightings

2622
01:48:19,129 --> 01:48:17,340
um did you uh either at the time or

2623
01:48:20,810 --> 01:48:19,139
later make any connection to your own

2624
01:48:22,310 --> 01:48:20,820
sighting

2625
01:48:25,310 --> 01:48:22,320
um

2626
01:48:27,709 --> 01:48:25,320
not not in particular I mean I followed

2627
01:48:29,750 --> 01:48:27,719
that flap with great interest

2628
01:48:31,430 --> 01:48:29,760
um and the only reason being the only

2629
01:48:32,810 --> 01:48:31,440
thing that it had in common with me it

2630
01:48:36,770 --> 01:48:32,820
seemed to me was the fact that it was

2631
01:48:38,990 --> 01:48:36,780
basically the same geographical area uh

2632
01:48:41,149 --> 01:48:39,000
um the Hudson Valley from where we were

2633
01:48:45,530 --> 01:48:41,159
living there would have been an hour's

2634
01:48:48,050 --> 01:48:45,540
drive or less from us it was close yeah

2635
01:48:50,090 --> 01:48:48,060
and I was driving and I was driving New

2636
01:48:52,129 --> 01:48:50,100
York in New York driving time which

2637
01:48:55,010 --> 01:48:52,139
means what what what was it 30 miles

2638
01:48:58,010 --> 01:48:55,020
something like that yeah

2639
01:49:01,790 --> 01:48:58,020
let me make a note here and we've got

2640
01:49:03,290 --> 01:49:01,800
Campbell I'm writing down our our uh

2641
01:49:06,169 --> 01:49:03,300
attendees because if they want to see

2642
01:49:07,910 --> 01:49:06,179
what a Nick coffin okay great all right

2643
01:49:09,250 --> 01:49:07,920
listen that's enough of me I've had my

2644
01:49:12,189 --> 01:49:09,260
spot in the Sun

2645
01:49:14,750 --> 01:49:12,199
what is going on

2646
01:49:16,250 --> 01:49:14,760
it's so great to have you here have a

2647
01:49:17,709 --> 01:49:16,260
nice night

2648
01:49:21,410 --> 01:49:17,719
thanks

2649
01:49:23,209 --> 01:49:21,420
he's back there we go yes I was a little

2650
01:49:25,250 --> 01:49:23,219
too quick on the trigger yeah for anyone

2651
01:49:27,950 --> 01:49:25,260
tuning in Fringe Quest is a pro follow

2652
01:49:31,250 --> 01:49:27,960
on Twitter absolutely a couple direct

2653
01:49:33,530 --> 01:49:31,260
message exchanges really cool like I was

2654
01:49:35,750 --> 01:49:33,540
delighted that he jumped on this evening

2655
01:49:37,490 --> 01:49:35,760
um yes definitely definitely worth

2656
01:49:39,530 --> 01:49:37,500
checking out

2657
01:49:41,149 --> 01:49:39,540
um so yeah so look we are almost at the

2658
01:49:42,550 --> 01:49:41,159
top of the hour

2659
01:49:44,629 --> 01:49:42,560
um

2660
01:49:46,609 --> 01:49:44,639
absolutely did and this was a lot of fun

2661
01:49:49,669 --> 01:49:46,619
right I wasn't sure how those kind of

2662
01:49:51,890 --> 01:49:49,679
open lion Style Show would go but it

2663
01:49:54,169 --> 01:49:51,900
seems like it went really yeah it's went

2664
01:49:55,669 --> 01:49:54,179
well it's really cool to talk to people

2665
01:49:57,890 --> 01:49:55,679
that are tuning in

2666
01:50:00,530 --> 01:49:57,900
um I'd love to be able to do it again in

2667
01:50:02,149 --> 01:50:00,540
the future yeah absolutely

2668
01:50:05,209 --> 01:50:02,159
is

2669
01:50:07,070 --> 01:50:05,219
David Halperin um in the queue to be

2670
01:50:09,109 --> 01:50:07,080
interviewed by us

2671
01:50:12,050 --> 01:50:09,119
no is he in line

2672
01:50:13,550 --> 01:50:12,060
oh like on an actual show I'm like is it

2673
01:50:16,149 --> 01:50:13,560
is he going to be interviewed by us I

2674
01:50:18,229 --> 01:50:16,159
don't remember if um we asked him no

2675
01:50:21,229 --> 01:50:18,239
nobody's reached out to him about doing

2676
01:50:23,090 --> 01:50:21,239
an interview last time I spoke to him he

2677
01:50:25,609 --> 01:50:23,100
was in the middle of writing two books

2678
01:50:27,229 --> 01:50:25,619
but that was months ago so I I don't

2679
01:50:28,870 --> 01:50:27,239
know where he's at with that

2680
01:50:31,729 --> 01:50:28,880
but um

2681
01:50:34,070 --> 01:50:31,739
does he still actively teach or is he

2682
01:50:38,270 --> 01:50:34,080
retired now Houston Emeritus he's

2683
01:50:40,250 --> 01:50:38,280
retired okay he was at UNC Chapel Hill

2684
01:50:42,109 --> 01:50:40,260
and we're trying to coax Martin

2685
01:50:45,189 --> 01:50:42,119
cottonmeyer to come on too but I don't

2686
01:50:48,229 --> 01:50:45,199
know if he does interviews

2687
01:50:50,629 --> 01:50:48,239
he wrote a whole op-ed about me on

2688
01:50:52,910 --> 01:50:50,639
Facebook he owes us coming on invisible

2689
01:50:55,370 --> 01:50:52,920
I agree with that did you say Isaac Coy

2690
01:51:01,729 --> 01:50:55,380
yeah I think he wishes to remain

2691
01:51:04,550 --> 01:51:03,410
I mean we can jump right into upcoming

2692
01:51:06,649 --> 01:51:04,560
episodes

2693
01:51:08,930 --> 01:51:06,659
yeah what do we have coming up uh in

2694
01:51:13,189 --> 01:51:08,940
chronicle chronological order though

2695
01:51:17,030 --> 01:51:13,199
yeah so so next week I was gonna say

2696
01:51:20,629 --> 01:51:17,040
next week on the 11th prompted by a

2697
01:51:22,729 --> 01:51:20,639
um yeah not if I buy a YouTube comment

2698
01:51:25,609 --> 01:51:22,739
um we'll be digging into vehicular

2699
01:51:29,090 --> 01:51:25,619
interference cases oh perfect good yes

2700
01:51:31,790 --> 01:51:29,100
Luis and Nick will be carrying that show

2701
01:51:34,790 --> 01:51:31,800
yeah with a with a special focus on um

2702
01:51:36,709 --> 01:51:34,800
the level in cases kind of the uh what

2703
01:51:39,470 --> 01:51:36,719
kicked it off in the states

2704
01:51:41,570 --> 01:51:39,480
sort of there was one or two earlier uh

2705
01:51:43,189 --> 01:51:41,580
VI cases in America and there was that

2706
01:51:47,330 --> 01:51:43,199
there was a French wave just before this

2707
01:51:49,270 --> 01:51:47,340
but this is 1957 classic UFO stuff like

2708
01:51:51,530 --> 01:51:49,280
some of my favorite

2709
01:51:53,390 --> 01:51:51,540
and it's been a while since we've done a

2710
01:51:54,950 --> 01:51:53,400
deep dive on a Case right and I think

2711
01:51:56,930 --> 01:51:54,960
keeping one of those periodically in

2712
01:51:59,090 --> 01:51:56,940
rotations cool

2713
01:52:02,510 --> 01:51:59,100
um yep so that's coming up on the 11th

2714
01:52:05,330 --> 01:52:02,520
on the 18th we have Sarah scholes we

2715
01:52:08,810 --> 01:52:05,340
caught her on Erica's show in discussion

2716
01:52:13,910 --> 01:52:08,820
with Erica and Jack she is the author of

2717
01:52:16,070 --> 01:52:13,920
they are already here and making contact

2718
01:52:18,890 --> 01:52:16,080
um so she'll be joining us on the 18th

2719
01:52:22,669 --> 01:52:18,900
super excited to have her on

2720
01:52:24,350 --> 01:52:22,679
um now we also have a couple not totally

2721
01:52:26,870 --> 01:52:24,360
confirmed guests coming up that have

2722
01:52:29,450 --> 01:52:26,880
soft yes from Nick West to join us for a

2723
01:52:31,490 --> 01:52:29,460
couple hours sometime in February

2724
01:52:34,910 --> 01:52:31,500
um Marco Visconti

2725
01:52:36,530 --> 01:52:34,920
um who is a contemporary occultist yeah

2726
01:52:39,590 --> 01:52:36,540
and

2727
01:52:41,390 --> 01:52:39,600
um esoteric writer he was also like

2728
01:52:42,950 --> 01:52:41,400
basically played for a ton of industrial

2729
01:52:44,689 --> 01:52:42,960
bands that I really like so when I found

2730
01:52:46,250 --> 01:52:44,699
that out I was like hell yeah come on

2731
01:52:47,990 --> 01:52:46,260
ins

2732
01:52:49,850 --> 01:52:48,000
um we'll also be bringing on Steve Young

2733
01:52:52,010 --> 01:52:49,860
uh who joined us briefly tonight he's

2734
01:52:54,470 --> 01:52:52,020
coming up sometime in February

2735
01:52:55,990 --> 01:52:54,480
um and then we'll also have uh Jeff from

2736
01:52:58,609 --> 01:52:56,000
strange Recon

2737
01:53:00,350 --> 01:52:58,619
so we have a number of really great

2738
01:53:03,290 --> 01:53:00,360
people coming up

2739
01:53:04,970 --> 01:53:03,300
um and I'm sure between now and the end

2740
01:53:07,250 --> 01:53:04,980
of that guest list we'll also have

2741
01:53:09,169 --> 01:53:07,260
opportunities to do some more of these

2742
01:53:11,810 --> 01:53:09,179
conversational style shows with the

2743
01:53:16,990 --> 01:53:11,820
audience uh Kurt Collins gave us a soft

2744
01:53:19,729 --> 01:53:17,000
yes also as well as Ryan's sprag oh yeah

2745
01:53:25,490 --> 01:53:19,739
reach out to Jules Evans

2746
01:53:30,290 --> 01:53:27,890
I will I talk a lot about his work kind

2747
01:53:31,729 --> 01:53:30,300
of in my other psychedelic universe so

2748
01:53:32,870 --> 01:53:31,739
I'm sure you'll be open for a

2749
01:53:35,149 --> 01:53:32,880
conversation

2750
01:53:36,649 --> 01:53:35,159
um so yeah Kurt Collins obviously

2751
01:53:39,530 --> 01:53:36,659
um super brilliant researcher and

2752
01:53:43,070 --> 01:53:39,540
ufologist uh I think his great Vlogs too

2753
01:53:44,750 --> 01:53:43,080
two great blogs uh blue blurry Lions is

2754
01:53:47,570 --> 01:53:44,760
one and what's the other Nick do you

2755
01:53:49,910 --> 01:53:47,580
know uh sponsors That Time Forgot that's

2756
01:53:52,490 --> 01:53:49,920
right yep in his big case is the cash

2757
01:53:54,350 --> 01:53:52,500
Landrum incident which is also one of

2758
01:53:57,229 --> 01:53:54,360
the cases I'm super into so really

2759
01:53:58,669 --> 01:53:57,239
excited to have him jump on yeah

2760
01:54:00,709 --> 01:53:58,679
um absolutely

2761
01:54:03,350 --> 01:54:00,719
so yeah I mean that's really where we'll

2762
01:54:05,270 --> 01:54:03,360
sit uh for right now super excited to

2763
01:54:06,410 --> 01:54:05,280
have everyone back after a couple weeks

2764
01:54:07,970 --> 01:54:06,420
Break

2765
01:54:09,950 --> 01:54:07,980
um do you guys have anything in the

2766
01:54:12,410 --> 01:54:09,960
works you want to plug before we uh I'll

2767
01:54:15,229 --> 01:54:12,420
go to bed I'm still doing a deep dive on

2768
01:54:17,270 --> 01:54:15,239
uh VI in Loveland right now um I never

2769
01:54:18,830 --> 01:54:17,280
know when to stop so I'm just gonna keep

2770
01:54:21,410 --> 01:54:18,840
doing that right up until next week's

2771
01:54:23,830 --> 01:54:21,420
show I think

2772
01:54:26,570 --> 01:54:23,840
I'm doing a deep dive into the um

2773
01:54:29,149 --> 01:54:26,580
invasion of Ukraine and how that sort of

2774
01:54:31,790 --> 01:54:29,159
broke open the well made really explicit

2775
01:54:35,689 --> 01:54:31,800
like the um the attack on consensus

2776
01:54:37,790 --> 01:54:35,699
Reality by right-wing forces and that's

2777
01:54:38,510 --> 01:54:37,800
sort of acted as a backdrop for a lot of

2778
01:54:40,310 --> 01:54:38,520
um

2779
01:54:43,250 --> 01:54:40,320
like the congregation of a lot of

2780
01:54:44,030 --> 01:54:43,260
reactionary stuff especially on Twitter

2781
01:54:47,149 --> 01:54:44,040
um

2782
01:54:49,430 --> 01:54:47,159
kind of like around anti-woke you know

2783
01:54:52,609 --> 01:54:49,440
pro-russia

2784
01:54:53,510 --> 01:54:52,619
um and like all that sort of stuff and

2785
01:54:55,490 --> 01:54:53,520
um

2786
01:54:58,310 --> 01:54:55,500
yeah well anyway you'll see that sounds

2787
01:55:01,910 --> 01:54:58,320
really interesting Louise yeah and I've

2788
01:55:04,010 --> 01:55:01,920
just been uh editing down my website

2789
01:55:07,310 --> 01:55:04,020
continuously and uh adding new

2790
01:55:09,050 --> 01:55:07,320
information from a uh monstrous document

2791
01:55:11,149 --> 01:55:09,060
I have at this point that I put all of

2792
01:55:13,370 --> 01:55:11,159
my notes into and uh I've been going

2793
01:55:15,050 --> 01:55:13,380
over that and trying to input them into

2794
01:55:16,250 --> 01:55:15,060
the spots where they're relevant and the

2795
01:55:18,830 --> 01:55:16,260
existing work

2796
01:55:19,910 --> 01:55:18,840
um I would love to suggest I mean we've

2797
01:55:21,649 --> 01:55:19,920
all talked about this so it's not even a

2798
01:55:24,830 --> 01:55:21,659
suggestion to you guys but I think that

2799
01:55:27,830 --> 01:55:24,840
the Twitter space is uh format is really

2800
01:55:30,109 --> 01:55:27,840
fun and uh this show is specially

2801
01:55:31,310 --> 01:55:30,119
reinforced to me that I I would love to

2802
01:55:33,109 --> 01:55:31,320
get back into the habit of doing that

2803
01:55:34,669 --> 01:55:33,119
like we were doing at the start back in

2804
01:55:36,649 --> 01:55:34,679
I guess with September

2805
01:55:38,030 --> 01:55:36,659
especially with Jeff too from strange

2806
01:55:40,070 --> 01:55:38,040
Rock Recon he's been doing a couple of

2807
01:55:41,750 --> 01:55:40,080
really great spaces this week yeah I

2808
01:55:43,310 --> 01:55:41,760
think we could do some good uh solid

2809
01:55:45,470 --> 01:55:43,320
crossovers um and Michael your

2810
01:55:47,149 --> 01:55:45,480
recommendation of Billy Cox from Life in

2811
01:55:49,250 --> 01:55:47,159
Jonestown that would be a great ghost as

2812
01:55:51,470 --> 01:55:49,260
well I get that sub stuck

2813
01:55:53,570 --> 01:55:51,480
um awesome recommendation

2814
01:55:56,689 --> 01:55:53,580
Leah what are you working on or trying

2815
01:55:58,010 --> 01:55:56,699
to blog yeah so right now

2816
01:56:00,229 --> 01:55:58,020
um I finally have something public

2817
01:56:02,209 --> 01:56:00,239
facing for We Own the Night the legacy

2818
01:56:05,470 --> 01:56:02,219
of Art Bell and Coast to Coast AM it's

2819
01:56:08,450 --> 01:56:05,480
we on the night got dot get book

2820
01:56:10,430 --> 01:56:08,460
g-i-t-b-o-ook dot i o

2821
01:56:13,209 --> 01:56:10,440
um I'm building in public so you guys

2822
01:56:16,430 --> 01:56:13,219
will see me start adding annotations

2823
01:56:18,290 --> 01:56:16,440
commentaries writing pieces I'm also

2824
01:56:21,470 --> 01:56:18,300
starting to interview and speak with

2825
01:56:24,830 --> 01:56:21,480
guests producers and Friends of the late

2826
01:56:27,709 --> 01:56:24,840
great Art Bell so I'm working on that

2827
01:56:30,590 --> 01:56:27,719
um I am also running another session of

2828
01:56:32,689 --> 01:56:30,600
psychedelic book club so starting in

2829
01:56:34,850 --> 01:56:32,699
early February we will be reading the

2830
01:56:37,790 --> 01:56:34,860
varieties of spiritual experience by Dr

2831
01:56:39,590 --> 01:56:37,800
David yaden who's uh on faculty at Johns

2832
01:56:41,209 --> 01:56:39,600
Hopkins University studying psychedelics

2833
01:56:43,430 --> 01:56:41,219
and Neuroscience

2834
01:56:44,930 --> 01:56:43,440
um and then finally I'm also running a

2835
01:56:46,370 --> 01:56:44,940
second book club called the EXO

2836
01:56:47,750 --> 01:56:46,380
explorers group and we're starting with

2837
01:56:50,810 --> 01:56:47,760
Ken Wilbur's

2838
01:56:52,490 --> 01:56:50,820
um a brief history of everything so if

2839
01:56:54,830 --> 01:56:52,500
anyone's interested in joining any of

2840
01:56:57,050 --> 01:56:54,840
those find me on Twitter I'm at Leah

2841
01:56:58,970 --> 01:56:57,060
Prime I've open DMS and I'll get

2842
01:57:00,649 --> 01:56:58,980
your groups

2843
01:57:02,990 --> 01:57:00,659
so yeah and I'll be on strange Recon

2844
01:57:05,270 --> 01:57:03,000
tomorrow at 10 am yes and make sure to

2845
01:57:07,490 --> 01:57:05,280
catch Campbell um on Jeff's show strange

2846
01:57:09,290 --> 01:57:07,500
recon at 10 A.M Eastern you can find it

2847
01:57:11,209 --> 01:57:09,300
on YouTube and I'll also add a link in

2848
01:57:13,370 --> 01:57:11,219
the show's description

2849
01:57:15,890 --> 01:57:13,380
all right well gentlemen without any

2850
01:57:17,390 --> 01:57:15,900
further delay thank you so much for

2851
01:57:18,890 --> 01:57:17,400
another wonderful episode of invisible

2852
01:57:20,990 --> 01:57:18,900
night school thank you so much to the

2853
01:57:22,570 --> 01:57:21,000
audience for joining us and I will see

2854
01:57:29,120 --> 01:57:22,580
you next Wednesday

2855
01:57:57,950 --> 01:57:36,550
[Music]

2856
01:58:05,070 --> 01:57:59,720
foreign

2857
01:58:07,660 --> 01:58:05,080
[Music]

2858
01:58:37,850 --> 01:58:07,670
[Applause]

2859
01:58:37,860 --> 01:58:44,860
foreign